This is Benji. I am a new member. This is my first post here and I did try to read through some of the sticky topics and normal ones in the Beginner forum to see if I can find a relevant post - my question could be stupid so I apologise in advance but I also know this is probably the best place where I can get genuine unbiased advice.
I have been doing photography for a while now with landscapes and events so I know the fundamentals - or so I thought before I purchased my Saxon 150/750 on an eq3 mount as I was fascinated by celestial object photographs that people have been sharing on various social handles. I wanted to try and see if I could do it.
These are some details which may help assess my current situation :
I am in Victoria, light pollution rating Bortle 6.
I have polar aligned the scope to the South Celestial Pole and have aligned the viewing scope and the telescope .
Collimation might be very slightly off but I am working on it.
I have a T ring and the 1.25” nosepiece for my D 750 to go into the focused but I did read that due to enhanced distance from the focal plane with this setup, my camera may not acquire focus. I searched on YouTube and saw an individual recommending to take the thread part of the focuser off and put the T ring directly screwed into it to reduce the distance between focal plane and sensor ( I hope I am using correct terminology here). With this setup I can achieve perfect focus during daytime with my camera. At night, when I use the camera in live view and zoom right in, I can see stars and they look ok. But when I take long e posters say around 10-30 sec across ISO range 800-3200, I get nothing but a gray blob and an imprint of my front assembly in the picture. I have attached a sample picture - I had two thoughts : light pollution or incorrect settings. But I cannot work out why I see that imprint in the photos. The moon rises pretty late so I was trying to point at Carina yesterday.
Any guidance you can offer will help me focus more on my skills and not be disheartened so early on.
Benji, I had hoped some of the more experienced astrophotographers would have chimed in by now, but as they have not, I will.
What camera are you using? And have you taken photos by day?
I do not understand the term "I take long e posters say around 10-30 sec"
what are e posters? are you using the mount to track?
In my view you need to start with the moon or a bright star and take 1 or 2 sec exposures and see how they work out. This will also help you with your focus.
Come back to us and give more information.
Hi John thank you so much for helping. This was a typo sorry - I meant exposures, not e posters. During day I can achieve focus and take photos. I have an equatorial mount but not tracked. Once I get some photos I will add a motor drive to aid in tracking . I use a Nikon d750. I am waiting for the moon to come up high in the sky, it is appearing around 12am these days. I do want to target the moon first to see if I am doing something fundamentally wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mekon
Benji, I had hoped some of the more experienced astrophotographers would have chimed in by now, but as they have not, I will.
What camera are you using? And have you taken photos by day?
I do not understand the term "I take long e posters say around 10-30 sec"
what are e posters? are you using the mount to track?
In my view you need to start with the moon or a bright star and take 1 or 2 sec exposures and see how they work out. This will also help you with your focus.
Come back to us and give more information.
Welcome to IIS. Your question is a good one. Getting started in this hobby can be tricky and frustrating at times, but incredibly rewarding as you progress.
Light pollution isn’t the issue. In your two screenshots you’ll notice a small white disc with a smaller black disc inside it. This is a bright star out of focus, in fact, completely out of focus. The black disc is the shadow of the secondary mirror. You can even see the spider vanes on close inspection, so your collimation is likely ok. As you improve focus, the disc will get smaller and the black disc inside will disappear. Suddenly hundreds of smaller stars will appear in the image. If your focuser is all the way in you still aren’t in focus, then likely there is an issue with your setup and need to remove some accessory.
The reason why you are in focus during the day and out of focus at night could be down to many factors. You might not be focusing at infinity. Try to focus on the Moon during the day to get yourself started.
Thank you so much Stephane I will give this a crack. You are right, I do not have something far away enough during the day from my backyard for me
to set infinity focus. I will start with the moon.
I am excited, clear skies and a good moon now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephane
Hi Benji,
Welcome to IIS. Your question is a good one. Getting started in this hobby can be tricky and frustrating at times, but incredibly rewarding as you progress.
In your two screenshots you’ll notice a small white disc with a smaller black disc inside it. This is a bright star out of focus, in fact, completely out of focus. As you improve focus, the disc will get smaller and the black disc inside will disappear. Suddenly hundreds of smaller stars will appear in the image.
The reason why you are in focus during the day and out of focus at night could be down to many factors. You might not by focusing at infinity. Try to focus on the Moon to get yourself started.
I would try to get focus on the moon. it is the easiest thing to use to focus to infinity by eye.
with the EQ3, I would recommend getting a goto kit rather than a tracking motors. there are onstep kits for EQ3 that are around $200-250. I got one for my EQ5 and it good pretty good to use.
A few things here, from the images it is nowhere near in focus, An eq3 mount is barely good enough for proper astro especially with that scope an EQ5 is a better option.
Get yourself down to a local astronomy club and see what the old timers can do to help you.
I would try to get focus on the moon. it is the easiest thing to use to focus to infinity by eye.
with the EQ3, I would recommend getting a goto kit rather than a tracking motors. there are onstep kits for EQ3 that are around $200-250. I got one for my EQ5 and it good pretty good to use.
A few things here, from the images it is nowhere near in focus, An eq3 mount is barely good enough for proper astro especially with that scope an EQ5 is a better option.
Get yourself down to a local astronomy club and see what the old timers can do to help you.
Thank you Nikolas, will take the guidance onboard.
Keep your EQ3 for now. Nik's right about it not being amazing for astrophotography but you can use it as a learning tool and then decided if you want to upgrade later if you like the hobby (it's fun, frustrating but overall great!).
+1 to the other comments. The images are just out of focus. Prep your images on a very distant object in the day, or the moon at night. Or get yourself a Bahtinov mask. They're cheap and you can focus on stars with them at night.
Quote:
not be disheartened so early on
Honestly, you should expect this to happen. I mean it; it's difficult at first but stick with it because the rewards are awesome. This isn't an easy hobby but it's not difficult either. It just can be very technical but the solutions are something you learn once and you move onto the next problem
Thank you for the guidance Adam, I will learn the basics properly with my eq3 and then decide if I want to upgrade.
One day I will get there if I stick with it , so I hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamJL
Keep your EQ3 for now. Nik's right about it not being amazing for astrophotography but you can use it as a learning tool and then decided if you want to upgrade later if you like the hobby (it's fun, frustrating but overall great!).
+1 to the other comments. The images are just out of focus. Prep your images on a very distant object in the day, or the moon at night. Or get yourself a Bahtinov mask. They're cheap and you can focus on stars with them at night.
Honestly, you should expect this to happen. I mean it; it's difficult at first but stick with it because the rewards are awesome. This isn't an easy hobby but it's not difficult either. It just can be very technical but the solutions are something you learn once and you move onto the next problem
Hi Benji,
Welcome to IIS
Let me say firstly to congratulate you for taking on a Newtonian Reflector telescope as a newbie
Most folk new to the hobby shy away from Newts and opt for smallish refractors up to 80mm.
From your post you certainly have started on the front foot , so only up and up from here , well done !!
Secondly a 150mm Newt is an ideal scope for both visual observing and imaging and will serve you well. I used one for 5 years and now have advanced to an 8” and 10” Carbon fibre imaging Newts.
Finally , in regard to Astro photography especially deep space long exposure Astrophotography, the mount is the primary consideration. I can’t emphasise enough how important the mount is when it comes to Astrophotography.When you have finances available and want to advance to the next step in the beginner phase , I strongly recommend a mount upgrade to the HEQ5 Goto mount ( as a minimum for your 150mm Newt) or if you want to future proof your set up for years and years to come , an EQ6-R pro mount ( of course the EQ6-R is a lot of money to outlay but is worth every cent , I’ve owned 2 and still use one )
One final bit of advice , read , read , read , I’ve been at it for 6 years now in retirement and still lots more to learn , you never stop learning in this wonderful hobby.
Thank you so much Martin for your kind encouragement, it means a lot. I will read more and more and keep at it and share what I capture, and save for HEQ mount.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek
Hi Benji,
Welcome to IIS
Let me say firstly to congratulate you for taking on a Newtonian Reflector telescope as a newbie
Most folk new to the hobby shy away from Newts and opt for smallish refractors up to 80mm.
From your post you certainly have started on the front foot , so only up and up from here , well done !!
Secondly a 150mm Newt is an ideal scope for both visual observing and imaging and will serve you well. I used one for 5 years and now have advanced to an 8” and 10” Carbon fibre imaging Newts.
Finally , in regard to Astro photography especially deep space long exposure Astrophotography, the mount is the primary consideration. I can’t emphasise enough how important the mount is when it comes to Astrophotography.When you have finances available and want to advance to the next step in the beginner phase , I strongly recommend a mount upgrade to the HEQ5 Goto mount ( as a minimum for your 150mm Newt) or if you want to future proof your set up for years and years to come , an EQ6-R pro mount ( of course the EQ6-R is a lot of money to outlay but is worth every cent , I’ve owned 2 and still use one )
One final bit of advice , read , read , read , I’ve been at it for 6 years now in retirement and still lots more to learn , you never stop learning in this wonderful hobby.
Hi Benji,
I forgot to mention there are many Astro apps ( planetarium’s ) available to learn the night sky any time of the day. Stellarium is an excellent planetarium and can be used for both visual observation and astrophotography. It has ocular plugin’s for observing and telescope plugin’s to control your telescope, plus many others.
Avoid using the Stellarium mobile app , it’s a copy and asks for money to provide additional information. Use the original Stellarium app on your PC or laptop ( Stellarium.org ) it’s open source software ( free ) and has been around for many many years , extremely popular , very intuitive and loads of additional features. You will attain a good understanding of the night sky in a few hours using it at any time of the day as it operates in real time so you can move forward or backwards in time using the date time function.
I’ve attached a basic user guide
Cheers
Martin
PS: You may already use it but I thought to mention it anyway
Location: '34 South' Young Hilltops LGA, Australia
Posts: 1,323
Hi Benji,
Others have already given you good advice. The telescope is well out of focus. Prime focus photography is the most testing form of astrophotography and not a great place to start.
Focussing on the Moon is an easy way to verify that you can focus but then you definitely don't want to be capturing with the Moon up. You can use live view on a bright star. Make sure you set live view to maximum magnification.
All geared drives suffer from a "wobble" called periodic error. Errors in the machining of the threaded worm that drives the gear wheel make the mount speed up then slow down. The average speed is correct but the stars appear as elongated ovals. As others have mentioned, you will struggle to use that mount with that telescope for prime focus photography. Instead, I recommend that you remove the telescope tube, reduce the counterweight and simply place the DSLR with a wide angle, standard or short telephoto lens. Reducing the payload will make the mount much more stable. Use just one of the counterweights. Use the counterweight combination that balances the camera/lens with the counterweight extended to a minimum distance from the axis. ie don't have the counterweight bouncing on the end of the counterweight shaft.
You have considerable light pollution. This lighter weight combination will be easier to transport out of the city to darker skies. If you join the Astronomical Society of Victoria (ASV), they have a dark sky site somewhere near Mansfield. That might be an option if you don't have an out of town location.
I have attached some example pictures taken with 14mm, 50mm, 135mm and 300mm lenses using small mounts or simple tracking methods. Assuming you already have some camera lenses, you can have a lot of fun doing this, learn a lot in the process, without spending any extra money on a better mount or any other gear. Astrotracer is a Pentax function where the camera's image stabiliser moves the sensor to compensate for the movement of the night sky. Don't worry about the tracking method, the image is just an example of what you can do with a DSLR camera and short lenses.
I use the mobile app but now going to give the desktop version a spin based on what you mentioned. Thanks again for being open and sharing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Startrek
Hi Benji,
I forgot to mention there are many Astro apps ( planetarium’s ) available to learn the night sky any time of the day. Stellarium is an excellent planetarium and can be used for both visual observation and astrophotography. It has ocular plugin’s for observing and telescope plugin’s to control your telescope, plus many others.
Avoid using the Stellarium mobile app , it’s a copy and asks for money to provide additional information. Use the original Stellarium app on your PC or laptop ( Stellarium.org ) it’s open source software ( free ) and has been around for many many years , extremely popular , very intuitive and loads of additional features. You will attain a good understanding of the night sky in a few hours using it at any time of the day as it operates in real time so you can move forward or backwards in time using the date time function.
I’ve attached a basic user guide
Cheers
Martin
PS: You may already use it but I thought to mention it anyway
Wow Joe insane images. I cannot believe how good Andromeda looks without dark or bias frames.
I have borrowed a skywatcher star adventurer pro 2i from a friend as well. I currently have my dslr mounted with a Nikon 80-200 2.8 on it, but will also try removing the telescope and try it with eq3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzEclipse
Hi Benji,
Others have already given you good advice. The telescope is well out of focus. Prime focus photography is the most testing form of astrophotography and not a great place to start.
Focussing on the Moon is an easy way to verify that you can focus but then you definitely don't want to be capturing with the Moon up. You can use live view on a bright star. Make sure you set live view to maximum magnification.
All geared drives suffer from a "wobble" called periodic error. Errors in the machining of the threaded worm that drives the gear wheel make the mount speed up then slow down. The average speed is correct but the stars appear as elongated ovals. As others have mentioned, you will struggle to use that mount with that telescope for prime focus photography. Instead, I recommend that you remove the telescope tube, reduce the counterweight and simply place the DSLR with a wide angle, standard or short telephoto lens. Reducing the payload will make the mount much more stable. Use just one of the counterweights. Use the counterweight combination that balances the camera/lens with the counterweight extended to a minimum distance from the axis. ie don't have the counterweight bouncing on the end of the counterweight shaft.
You have considerable light pollution. This lighter weight combination will be easier to transport out of the city to darker skies. If you join the Astronomical Society of Victoria (ASV), they have a dark sky site somewhere near Mansfield. That might be an option if you don't have an out of town location.
I have attached some example pictures taken with 14mm, 50mm, 135mm and 300mm lenses using small mounts or simple tracking methods. Assuming you already have some camera lenses, you can have a lot of fun doing this, learn a lot in the process, without spending any extra money on a better mount or any other gear. Astrotracer is a Pentax function where the camera's image stabiliser moves the sensor to compensate for the movement of the night sky. Don't worry about the tracking method, the image is just an example of what you can do with a DSLR camera and short lenses.
Location: '34 South' Young Hilltops LGA, Australia
Posts: 1,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObservingBee
Wow Joe insane images. I cannot believe how good Andromeda looks without dark or bias frames.
I have borrowed a skywatcher star adventurer pro 2i from a friend as well. I currently have my dslr mounted with a Nikon 80-200 2.8 on it, but will also try removing the telescope and try it with eq3.
Hi Benji,
Bear in mind, they are taken from very dark rural skies. You won't be able to capture anything like that from the city. But get outta town and the skies the limit.
The Nikon 80-200 f2.8 is an excellent lens to start with. Mount it centrally on the polar axis of the Star Adventurer with a good solid ball and socket or tripod head (like the first photo), not hanging out on the dec bracket (like the second photo). The second photo is not a star adventurer, it's a much more solid polar housing to which I fitted the Star Adventurer Dec. That worked ok but the SA doesn't hold heavy camera+lens combos on the dec bracket. You'll get much better results centrally mounting /balancing the camera lens.
On your EQ mounting, you can just mount it on a dovetail plate and use it in place of the tube.
Welcome Benji!
Lots of great advice from members!
Most newtonians sold are for visual use unless you buy a photo optimised one like the Quattro range by Skywatcher.
With your saxon scope you will need to push the primary mirror up the tube by getting longer collimation screws and springs which are on the back of your OTA. Changing this is rather simple but you will have to collimate the scope again. 10-20-mm longer screws might get you in focus.
If you are on a budget, get yourself a tracking motor tor your eq3. You should be able to do lunar and very short deep sky stuff and learn the basics!
Cheers
