First scope: Bintel or Guan Sheng 12" Dob?

SkyBlue · #1 07-07-2007, 06:26 PM

Hi,
I'm looking for some advice on what first scope to get. I think i'm going to go for 12" Dob but i'm undecided on whether to go for an Andrews Guan Sheng or a Bintel 12". Between these two I have also noticed that Andrews have various versions of the 12" GS Dob in terms of the Crawford focuser. Being a novice i'm not totally sure what this is how much difference this is going to make.

If anyone can share any advice on which they would go for and the relevant pros/cons of Bintel over Guan Sheng would be greatly appreciated.

Bintel BT-302
https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=6994

Andrews GS-980
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

Rich.

Satchmo · #2 07-07-2007, 06:27 PM

I'd buy from the business who employs someone too check , upgrade and collimate them before the cardboard box arrives at your house.

duncan · #3 07-07-2007, 06:34 PM

Hi Rich,
Being the proud owner of a Bintel 12" premium dob i'm biased. You can't go wrong with either scope but make sure you get one with a crayford focuser. This type of focuser doesn't suffer from backlash like the old rack and pinion style. If you can afford a little extra get a 10 to 1 crayford, gives very fine focus adjustment. Take a look at the "Reviews" there is one on the 12" Bintel.
Cheers,
Duncan

Photon · #4 07-07-2007, 08:06 PM

Ditto on the 10:1 Crayford, put one on my 200mm GS Dob it's one of the best mods to make.
Regards IanG

wavelandscott (Scott) · #5 07-07-2007, 09:15 PM

The GSO and the Bintel dobs are basically the same with the Bintel being "rebadged" locally...

As has been noted in previous threads, Bintel will open the box and check it and collimate it before it gets sent to you. Of course, after the trip to you it will likely need to be re-collimated depending on how the delivery folks handle it.

I've done a lot of business with Bintel and have always been happy with their service. I have not purchased from Andrews but those that have seem to appreciate their efforts too.

When I made my purchase decision I got my first scope from Bintel...I appreciate their advice and service that they have provided to me (they gave me a quick "how to collimate lesson" in the shop when i bought mine)...

Good Luck!

monoxide · #6 07-07-2007, 09:58 PM

first thing ill say is that if you feel that having your scope collimated before its shipped is a bonus, you should be buying a refractor.

anyway..
both premium versions come with the 10:1 crayford from what i can see.
so i guess it comes down to the ep's added.

andrews includes 4 gso plossls (25mm/15mm/9mm/6mm) and a 2" SV32
bintel includes 2 gso plossls (15mm/9mm) and a 26 FMC

although the FMC is a kellner design and probably wouldnt really be much use in a f/5 newt, also the SV would probably be of the same quality.
id really recommend asking them to swap for a 25mm plossl which is actually quite good

i found the 25 and 15mm plossls were very good to start off with, the 9mm was a bit average and the 6mm works pretty well as a dust cap i guess.

also im not sure if andrews still does it but i got a pair of 10x20 bino's included with the dob which are actually pretty good.

but really when it all comes down to it they are both guan sheng dobs from the same factory, with the guys from bintel pulling it out of the box, checking it out, collimating it and putting it back in the box. (you WILL still need to collimate when you get the scope)

i've dealt both with andrews and bintel, both were very good to deal with.

Gargoyle_Steve (Steve) · #7 08-07-2007, 01:21 AM

As above - Bintel and Andrew's scopes are both made by GSO (as is my "Southern Cross" 12" dob actually).

Definitely YES get the Crayford focussor, or unlike soem others here (me included) you'll end up paying more to buy one separately later anyway, yes they are that good!

The basic included ep's will all provide reasonable views, especially at the price! Use these until you get more used to observing, ie getting yoru eye and brain "attuned" to what you are seeing anyway, then you will be a bit better prepared to spend more money, be that big bucks or bigger bucks, down the track.

You WILL need to learn how to collimate, and despite how well collimated it is when you buy it at some point that will change, be it before it's delivered to you or sometime afterwards. I strongly recommend you get a combination sighting/Cheshire tube (collimation tool) asap, ideally arriving with the scope.

I have also dealt with both dealers, each on multiple occasions, and I have found both to be helpful and easy to talk to. As I live in Qld all items have had to be freighted to me and have arrived promptly, well packaged, and in perfect condition.

A 12" scope is a Wonderful observing tool, you are going to be blown away by what you can see in it! Do remember though that apart from brighter stars and the planets you will see everything else in shades of grey, not the colourful scenes you see in books and online. But you WILL see these objects in that scope!

Have fun !!!

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #8 08-07-2007, 01:33 AM

Ditto all the above.

The 12" is a magnificent scope! Only just fits in the car, but it does fit.

Collimation before delivery really means diddly-squat as it will need collimation as soon as you pull it out of the box anyway. But it is nice to know that it is checked over before it leaves the store.

Even though I got mine from Andrews, they don't have any servicing or repairs department. Bintel do.

It is entirely up to you whether it's worth paying about $50 more for piece of mind with servicing, or $50 less for more EP's and a pair of binoculars thrown in, coz the scopes are identical.

davidpretorius · #9 08-07-2007, 10:24 AM

Am i right in thinking that they have different focal lengths?

from memory bintel was longer ie higher magnification?

Both are good, but i suggest go Bintel!

Rigel003 (Graeme) · #10 08-07-2007, 10:55 AM

Not sure if this is the case now, but when I bought my 10" a few years back Bintel used to put a centre spot on the primary mirror which is a big help for collimation and I think Andrews didn't. Eyepieces aren't really an issue. Once you become a bit more experienced you'll want to upgrade either set.

Gargoyle_Steve (Steve) · #11 09-07-2007, 02:40 AM

Both 12" models have the same focal length, ie 1500mm.

My first dob was a 10", purchased a bit over a year ago from Andrew's and yes it had a centre spot, or rather it had a centre "ring" which I think is probably more useful than a spot.

I can't comment but I suspect that GSO themselves put it there, and if that is true then the Bintel ones should be the same. Someone who has recently purchased a Bintel dob should be able to comment on what kind of centre mark they have but I'd bet it's the same ring.

erick (Eric) · #12 09-07-2007, 09:43 AM

I bought a 2nd hand Bintel 8" dob which was apparently bought new Nov 2006. It has a centre ring on the Primary mirror.

DougAdams · #13 09-07-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyBlue

If anyone can share any advice on which they would go for and the relevant pros/cons of Bintel over Guan Sheng would be greatly appreciated.

They are the same scope (aren't they?). I bought the Bintel 12" because they were local to me. They also upgraded the focuser to a 10:1, which was very nice.

There are a couple of things you will need to do - get the primary mirror springs upgraded ASAP, as the flimsy ones that come with the scope do not hold collimation well. Also, the azimuth motion is very sticky - once you go above 150x, it gets annoying.

DougAdams · #14 09-07-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gargoyle_Steve

Both 12" models have the same focal length, ie 1500mm.

My first dob was a 10", purchased a bit over a year ago from Andrew's and yes it had a centre spot, or rather it had a centre "ring" which I think is probably more useful than a spot.

I can't comment but I suspect that GSO themselves put it there, and if that is true then the Bintel ones should be the same. Someone who has recently purchased a Bintel dob should be able to comment on what kind of centre mark they have but I'd bet it's the same ring.

My Bintel bought late last year had the doughnut ring centre spot.

Tannehill · #15 09-07-2007, 09:59 PM

I've a 12" Bintel (GSO) dob I bought in April. Center spot came with scope. Actually, mine was off center just a smidgeon. Could be just my luck, but if you have the mirror outa the tube, worth checking. I centered it, and added a semi-reflective annular ring to make autocollimator use at night easier....the plain white was a bit tough to see.

agree with AZ motion comment. Eric and I both added Ebony Star to our bases. mine needed additional addition of larger teflon pads to make the motion smoother.

st

SkyBlue · #16 11-07-2007, 11:05 AM

Thanks for the excellent responses guys.

It seems like the visual inspection offered by Bintel is certainly worth it although general opinion is that I will need to Collimate anyway once it arrives - something I am loking forward to learning

The 10: 1 crayford also appears to be the way to go as well.

I will get a quote on shipping from them both, but hopefully Bintel will be within the same ballpark as Andrews.

Thanks again.
Rich.

iceman (Mike) · #17 11-07-2007, 11:12 AM

Hi Rich

Sounds like you're on the right path. Keep asking questions and look forward to reading your experiences!

Welcome to IIS.