Youtube feed ... Hmmmmm

[DarkArts]

This is going to sound a bit weird. And I may regret posting.

I watch Youtube both on a PC (for all kinds of purposeful things) and also, occasionally, on a set-top-box (for sports highlights where I don't have a subscription, video walking tours, animal videos, random light entertainment, etc). I never log in and never will.

On my PC, I filter everything fairy well - e.g. no ads. On the STB, I'm exposed to (what I think may be) the full onslaught of the Youtube algorithm.

A few times now, on the STB, I've noticed quite dubious videos being recommended. The relationship to something I've searched for or previously watched can be tenuous at best. Some videos, I would say, shouldn't be on Youtube at all. Some involve ... ahem ... apparent underage in borderline circumstances. It's happened several times; it's not a one-off. I can't report the videos (I looked into it) because that requires logging in. Most online discussions say reported videos don't get taken down anyway. (And, no, I don't watch online pr0n).

Frankly, some of those dubious videos look like 'jail bait'.

Has anyone else seen this? Is it the algorithm (in which case, what the heck are other people watching?!)? Or is it something else? If the Youtube algorithm (or some other mechanism) is actually 'baiting' people, I think it's useful to know.

[Leo.G (Leo)]

Some involve ... ahem ... apparent underage in borderline circumstances.

Don't ever go to Tic-Tok or however the paedo's delight channel is spelt.
I went there to watch one video a friend had directed me to and the next thing I know some other thing had started playing a video of what would have been I'm guessing a 13 year old girl dressed in very little waving her crap around in front of a camera (possibly dancing, I quit out almost immediately).


You-WATCH OUR ADS can go....
I tried to watch a review recently on the Nikon P1100, I watched through 4 odd minutes of ads which couldn't be skipped and I still didn't get to see the review of the 125 times zoom and NEVER will.

[JeniSkunk (Jenifur)]

As far as YT goes, if you see filth like that, and you're logged in, then report it as porn.

And for preventing YT ads, there's always ad blocking software.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

I'm getting flooded with ads on YouTube when I watch it on TV through either my Amazon Firestick or my Smart box. It's not quite as bad on my phone or PC.

But I'm surprised at your experience, as I don't get anything like what you describe in the ads.

Regards,
Renato.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Get yourself a Google/YT account that you may chose to let expire afterwards and report this harmful rubbish. Make up a name, whatever. That's not much, but it's the right thing to do. The chances of any meaningful action being taken are slim, but they are zero if you do nothing.

[sharkbite]

Originally Posted by DarkArts

On my PC, I filter everything fairy well - e.g. no ads. On the STB, I'm exposed to (what I think may be) the full onslaught of the Youtube algorithm.

A few times now, on the STB, I've noticed quite dubious videos being recommended.

out of curiousity - what is the STB?

(since you dont log in - it ain't you, and could be some weird 'call home' from the box itself...)

Ironically - logging in may actually protect you from this stuff, as YT has filters you can set, as well as recommending stuff you are likely to enjoy based on prior viewing choices.

As an aside - was watching a movie on the telly the other day - had the mobile in the room - picked up the phone to check it, and the name of the song playing in the movie, as well as the artwork, appeared on the lockscreen....google is always listening :-)

[JeniSkunk (Jenifur)]

Originally Posted by sharkbite

As an aside - was watching a movie on the telly the other day - had the mobile in the room - picked up the phone to check it, and the name of the song playing in the movie, as well as the artwork, appeared on the lockscreen....google is always listening :-)

That's just Chromecast between YT on your TV, and your phone

[DarkArts]

Thanks, all, for your advice.

Originally Posted by Leo.G

Don't ever go to Tic-Tok ...

Yeah, I've never used TikTok and I don't ever plan to. I can't stand the ads either.

Originally Posted by Renato1

I don't get anything like what you describe in the ads

It's not ads, it's the recommended videos.

Originally Posted by N1

Get yourself a Google/YT account

Thanks, but that's off the table. I'm actually trying to de-Google myself entirely (well, over the coming year or two - it's a lot of work).

Originally Posted by SharkBite

out of curiousity - what is the STB? <snip> Ironically - logging in may actually protect you from this stuff

It's a Fetch box. I only started using the built-in Youtube app a few months ago.

I won't be logging in to Youtube (ever), but what I probably will do is build a new Home Theatre PC. I used to have one 15 or so years ago, before STBs had decent apps on them. I think it's time to go back to that so I can still use the big screen but filter out the rubbish, and potentially use a VPN to keep Youtube at 'arms length' from the rest of my (by then) de-Googled activity. I'll relegate the STB to less-troublesome apps ... like BritBox, where one is more likely to die of boredom* than shock.

--------

The 'baiting' possibility has some credibility to it, though. A few years ago, I remember reading an article and discussions about Task Force Argos. TF Argos went after paedophiles, mainly in QLD, but reportedly used some aggressive methods; not just hanging around on adult sites to see what was going on, but allegedly trying to lure people (on those sites) into saying something they didn't originally intend - I think it's called "verballing". I wouldn't be surprised if there was a national or international version that sprayed out dubious videos on Youtube, to lure people.


* Actually, it's not bad, and boredom is underrated anyway.

[sharkbite]

Originally Posted by DarkArts

It's a Fetch box.

There's your problem.....you may not have logged in to youtube specifically, but you are logged in....bigtime....

Fetch is absolutely paying attention to what you are watching and creating their own algorithm....in fact it pretty much says so in their T&C's...

Thats not so say you are doing anything untoward - just that - like it or not - you are "logged in" to something....and that influences your feed.

[DarkArts]

Originally Posted by sharkbite

....you may not have logged in to youtube specifically, but you are logged in....

I'd not noticed anything even remotely personalised or suspect before using the Youtube app - it must be down to Youtube (i.e. Google), perhaps leveraging metadata provided by Fetch.

Originally Posted by sharkbite

Thats not so say you are doing anything untoward

Well, yes, that's what's been most disturbing; the thought of "How did I deserve to be fed that?!". But if not actually random, maybe it is semi-random, i.e. if they figure out you're male, like sport, and watch films with Ana de Armas (or whatever criteria they use) then you get this stuff in your feed.

If it's Youtube's algortithm then I'm even more concerned for how Google conduct their business. If it's law enforcement luring people (on Youtube, that is) then I'm angry - no problem with them infiltrating shady/dark web sites, but don't screw around with Youtube feeds!

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Are you the only person using this device or are others in the house also using the Fetch tv box? if so I'd be questioning their viewing habits

[sharkbite]

Originally Posted by DarkArts

If it's Youtube's algortithm then I'm even more concerned for how Google conduct their business. If it's law enforcement luring people (on Youtube, that is) then I'm angry - no problem with them infiltrating shady/dark web sites, but don't screw around with Youtube feeds!

On a browser - if you dont log in, youtube recommendations are no longer shown...same goes for incognito mode for the android app...

the fetch app is getting its feed info from somewhere, but it aint you....could be fetch themselves...you could try complaining to them?

I doubt Mr Plod would be doing this deliberately....

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by DarkArts

.


It's not ads, it's the recommended videos.

I don't get that either. I just get recommended videos on politics, history, photography, war, 70s music.....the stuff I regularly watch.

My wife gets stuff on gardening, elephants, bird nest live streams, royalty gossip...the stuff she watches.

Very weird what you are getting. I have a hard time thinking of any video I've seen on YouTube that wasn't sqeaky clean.
Regards,
Renato

[DarkArts]

Originally Posted by Renato1

I don't get that either.

It's the Youtube app on my STB where this is happening. On my PC, where I have control over the software and apply filtering, I don't recall ever seeing this stuff.

[DarkArts]

Another possibility, I suppose, is that the STB might be hacked. I would have no way of knowing. Even with external packet capture and analysis, since I don't know what normal traffic looks like, I wouldn't be able to recognise abnormal behaviour.

-----------------------

Anyway, after talking it through in this thread (thanks, guys), I have concluded that I will:

(1) downgrade the STB to 'severely untrusted' and cease using the Youtube app.
(2) build a new Home Theatre PC and do more on that, where I can have control over the software and filter content (like I do on my desktop PC).
(3) relegate the STB to using only the least troublesome/least risky apps and maybe retire it altogether.

I think the lessons for everyone else are: don't trust IoT devices, especially ones with apps, because, without control over the software, you can't know what they're really doing; and, beware what Youtube recommends.

[Dennis]

I once typed in "Vixen Super Polaris Mount" looking for information on the Vixen SP-DX GEM.

I got a page full of "super-vixens" i.e. scantily clad foxy ladies.....

Dennis.

[sharkbite]

Originally Posted by JeniSkunk

That's just Chromecast between YT on your TV, and your phone

Nope.

I dont have a Chromecast, my telly ain't that smart (it does not have yt), and it also happens when I'm listening to fm radio in the car...Google is always listening...