Series 500 EPs

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

[iceman (Mike)]

I think it's a worthwhile campaign against the s500's. Why would you sell a good quality (for the price) GS Dob with inferior quality eyepieces. The eyepieces make up so much of what's a good view and what's a bad view.

I agree it's definitely something Bintel would not do, and Andrews are obviously doing it to be able to give a cheaper price.

We (as amateurs) spend so much time warning newbies to avoid the cheap ebay rubbish, and then we have a major supplier (Andrews) of a good telescope (GSO Dob) offering up cheap shoddy eyepieces which can turn someone off astronomy just as a cheap wobbly 60mm refractor can.

The GSO Plossls aren't like a televue, but I own 4 GSO plossls (9,15,25,32) and have been quite surprised by their performance, even rating it better than the much more expensive Orion Epic ED series. They're good company for the good value GSO Dob, and replacing them with cheap s500's, that probably cost Lee a couple of dollars at the most, is bad news.

The amount of business we've sent Andrews way, we should have some weight in this campaign.

As BD said:

Lee occasionally reads these forums. He also knows we send people to him.

If he keeps supplying crummy EP's we can always recommend Bintel instead

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by iceman

The amount of business we've sent Andrews way, we should have some weight in this campaign.

I think all that is required from us is to advise prospective buyers to under no circumstances accept the s500 plossls as they have effectively a value of $0.
The buyer can then make up their own mind about the Bintel/Andrews value proposition.

[slice of heaven]

Originally Posted by asimov

'Arguing with some IISers is a lot like wrestling in the mud with a pig. After a few hours, you realise that they like it'

YEP

[ving (David)]

guys, I realise that some of this is in jest but look at what you are getting for your price...

just for example, where else are you going to get a 8" dob for the price lee sells it for? not bintel (thier nearest competitor) they sell for about $100 more. so obviously they have to cut some sort of corner to get the price so low, and really the low price is to our beifit right? hence the s500 EPs. yeah they are crappy but for the price you are paying what do you want? televue? if he changes the package to include better EPs the price will probably have to go up. think about it that way guys.

We however are in a excellent advisory position here at the forum where we can tell newbies that the package that they are buying comes with s500s and they shoud invest a bit more cash and upgrade the EP... I think this is probably the best way of dealing with the problem rather than an all out bashing.
wht do you think?

[ving (David)]

sorry, bintel is $150 more that andrews, just checked.

[iceman (Mike)]

That's the thing Ving, if we tell them the s500's are crap, then they have to get better ones (GSO plossls, usually). If they have to pay extra for these, then the $150 price difference might only be $100 or less difference now.

yes $400 is incredible value for a great scope, however it effectively comes with no eyepieces. We just have to make sure that people realise they'll have to spend a bit extra on top of that if they want good views.

It's then up to the individual to decide, as Geoff says, on teh value proposition of Andrews v Bintel based on what Bintel offer (services, advice, GSO plossls) for that extra price.

[slice of heaven]

I cant agree Ving
People dont deserve to be landed with these evil objects.
If Andrews wants to keep supplying these eps, its a negative for his package.
I think its only right that we inform prospective gs dob buyers of this shortfall.

[chunkylad (David)]

Hi guys,

I started this thread to find out what the downside to these series 500s was, in real terms, as Lee Andrews complained that he'd had subjective moans about them, but nothing specific and objective. I thought this might be a good opportunity to highlight some of those more specific complaints.

I think I can safely say I've opened the proverbial can of wriggly things!

To highlight the differences in the GSO Dob packages between both Andrews and Bintel (for their 12" deluxe Dob packages):
Bintel: $150 more expensive. Comes with 3x'Bintel' EPs (2x1.5", 1x2"), Fan, Crayford and an EP case.

Andrews: Crayford, fan, for $57extra, instead of the dreaded series 500s, 4xGS plossls 1.5", 1x2"GS EP, Binos, 4x colour filters(??!!), moon filter

So for $93 less than Bintel, I have 4x GS Plossls instead of 2 Bintel plossls. The rest of the 'deal sweeteners' are much of a muchness, and are probably pretty even in $$$terms

If it wasn't for you all on this forum, I personally would be none the wiser, and would have 4 x series 500s on the way here from Sydney reight now!

Cheers

Dave W

[slice of heaven]

You got a nice package Dave.
If Lee can extend this through the whole range of dobs that'd be great.

[iceman (Mike)]

as Lee Andrews complained that he'd had subjective moans about them, but nothing specific and objective

good point really, there hasn't been a specific review of them as such. I don't own any of these s500's, but if someone wants to send me one of theirs for a week i'll do a review as compared to my GS plossls of the same focal length (9, 15, 25 or 32mm). PM me if you are able to do this.

FYI: the 'bintel' plossls are GS plossls.

[Thiink]

When I got my dob from Andrews it came with two series 500's (a 4mm and a 40mm) and two GSO's (9mm and 25mm). The 40mm is actually not that bad, but the 4mm is next to useless. I'm trying to think of something else I could do it with (maybe a cheap sight tube).

If you can get all GSO plossl's for little extra then the cost saving may be worth it. The bino's you get arent really any good for astro use, but they are great for perving on the neighbours.

[ving (David)]

Originally Posted by slice of heaven

You got a nice package Dave.
If Lee can extend this through the whole range of dobs that'd be great.

well that was my point...
I wasnt sticking up for the 500s, they are bad. I was justifying lee putting them as part of the package (ie to bring the price down). now if anyone wants to pay a little extra like dave has done yeah sure you can get all gso EPs... lee is flexible that way.
that said, I have had 2 s500 EP and while they are not great, they are not useless at all.
I just think, as i said in the last paragraph, that we are in a perfect position to advise new comers of the options. and thats really what my post was about.

[chunkylad (David)]

Originally Posted by iceman

good point really, there hasn't been a specific review of them as such. I don't own any of these s500's, but if someone wants to send me one of theirs for a week i'll do a review as compared to my GS plossls of the same focal length (9, 15, 25 or 32mm). PM me if you are able to do this.

Yeah Iceman,

I think it would be a very positve move for us as consumers to present some concrete evidence to a retailer about the quality,or lack thereof, of the accessories he's supplying.

If it shows significant lack of quality in these series 500s (as it would appear to be sure to do), then you would think this would lead to Lee Andrews upgrading the EPs he's including in his packages. A win for us!!!!

Cheers

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

I think it's fair enough if Lee wants to offer the cheapest deal, but he should be made aware of the quality difference, and let his customers know; something like: "you can have scope + s500s for X dollars, but for $60 more or whatever you can upgrade to GSO EPs, which are much better..." With the 8" scope you only get 2 EPs these days, so the cost of the upgrade around $30 would be well worth it, instead of being disappointed at first and then forking out $78 or more later.

I think a comparative review would really help new members and it would also help Lee better inform his customers. I only have the 4 & 20mm S500s, but you are welcome to them, Mike! I'll even pay the postage! In fact not only will I pay the postage, but I'll write you a cheque for $10 per eyepiece.

P.S. Cheques will not be honoured.

[ving (David)]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

In fact not only will I pay the postage, but I'll write you a cheque for $10 per eyepiece.

P.S. Cheques will not be honoured.

[slice of heaven]

Originally Posted by chunkylad

Yeah Iceman,

I think it would be a very positve move for us as consumers to present some concrete evidence to a retailer about the quality,or lack thereof, of the accessories he's supplying.

If it shows significant lack of quality in these series 500s (as it would appear to be sure to do), then you would think this would lead to Lee Andrews upgrading the EPs he's including in his packages. A win for us!!!!

Cheers

I think Lee would be smart enough to realize that if the S500s cost him $8 to put on his shelf, they must be lacking in something.
Substituting the standard gs eps for S500s is not a way to encourage return business.
If this thread can turn the tables for future buyers, GOOD.

[cahullian]

I got the 8" Dob from Andrews 2 months ago and it arrived with the 9mm and 25mm GSO plossl ep's I didn't ask for them, them just came with the scope. Maybe Lee only puts the 500 series with the scopes that come with 4 ep's. I have never looked through a 500 ep ,but I cant complain about the GSO ep's. I have also the 32 mm and thanks to H0ughy a 2' 42 mm GSO.

GAzz

[shredder]

Hi All,

Just would like to add my 2 cents worth to the discussion. Everyone is talking about the GSOs and the 500s as if there is a huge price difference between them and that retailers (I dont want to be specific to a retailer here) are changing packages to suite their market.

The reality is that both series of EPs are really inexpensive to buy, and that the packages are generally done by GSO themselves, and not by the local suppliers. GSO offer the Dobs in several packages for each size, with varying eps and fans etc which is why one comapny sell one version and another sell another they simply pick a different package from the same list (prices vary accordingly with the package, and volume ordered).

You are all talking as if the reatiler is saving $50 on each eyepiece, in reality there is probably < $10 difference in the ep costs to the retailer, there really cant be more than this as the eps dont cost much more than this to buy anyway. And you have to wonder about the value of a $10 ep to start with?

So why is one reatiler cheaper than the other, its all about margins, the packages themselves make little difference, its the markup (and the volume of sales).

My suggestion is that you simply ask for the 500s to be replaced by the GSOs if you believe they really are better, or to not take them and have the price of them taken off (but dont expect too much), and buy your own separately.

Anyway thats my thoughts on the matter.....

M

[slice of heaven]

Shredder , NO there's not a huge price difference, BUT there is a difference between the quality of the 2 types and that is our main concern.
When I bought my gs Lee told me the 2 gs eps (9 +25) came standard with all gs dobs and 2 S500s were a bonus with the 12. I recieved 4 S500s .

I wasnt impressed but I have better eps anyway.
A first time buyer wont have and wont probably be any wiser, and I dont think thats fair. It could be a factor in whether a newbie continues to pursue this great hobby or not.