The Federal budget, it wasn't all bad

[Deeno]

Oh sorry.
The gross debt only currently stands at 267 billion dollars.

$14000 for every worker......

[Retrograde (Pete)]

but the correct measure is net debt (about $100b less)

[Octane (Humayun)]

It's my generation who will be left to pick up the debt that this wasteful government has left behind as its greatest legacy.

All the economic growth, low interest rates, low unemployment, etc., simply cannot negate the ridiculous debt situation this country now finds itself in.

Who in their right mind finds borrowing $100 million a day to float this nation feasible or acceptable? It /has/ to be paid back. And, with interest.

Sigh.

H

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Retrograde

but the correct measure is net debt (about $100b less)

Hey Pete, I reckon the interests owned on the whole amount for the time it's gonna take us to pay it back will round it off.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Octane

It's my generation who will be left to pick up the debt that this wasteful government has left behind as its greatest legacy.

Us and the kids unfortunately. Next step is sucking our SMSF dry which has already started. I'm thinking of bailing out buying gold and dig a hole somewhere.

[avandonk]

Octane your generation deserves it!

My daughter is about your age and she thinks 'we' got some sort of advantage.

Bert

[Octane (Humayun)]

I wouldn't wish debt on anyone Bert!

H

[avandonk]

Originally Posted by Octane

I wouldn't wish debt on anyone Bert!

H

It is not that. It is all about relativity.

When my daughter was born in 1972 I got stuff all from the Gov.

She is now a smart person that tells me my generation has taken all the good positions or possies.

She was driving me back to Darwin from Katherine at about 130km per hour in her turbocharged Land Rover. She then had the nerve to say to me that my generation had taken it all! Of course I was not amused.

I wonder if when I croak and leave her my hacienda worth over 600k in Eltham would she say I was a squatter?

Bert

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Returning to the OP for a moment, it seems the Australian Academy of Science isn't too fussed about the allocation to science in the budget. Probably no surprise but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-1...vision/4691674

[LewisM]

What is most disconcerting about the forthcoming election is not the fact that the Liberals WILL win, but rather the fact that there is basically no other option - the election is purely to get Gillard and her throng of inept socialists OUT of government (oh, I will be SO glad to see Wayne Swan go!!!).

Facing a VERY poor choice at the polls, I am totally undecided whether to go with my traditional "genetic" selection of LNP (wish the Nationals were still a solo band) or to do the unconscionable/unthinkable - a donkey vote! As much as I dislike Gillard's National Socialism ( ), I also have absolutely NO faith whatsoever in Abbott and his now tactless bunch of schoolboys.

And NO WAY IN COLD HELL AM I VOTING FOR PALMER. Be like voting for Pauline, with Money

H is right - the future is grim thanks to the wanton spending and insidious taxes imposed by the current "Government".

Anyway, this is not the place to discuss the reality of the situation and what needs to be done to fix it. We need a truly Off Topic Forum

[GrahamL]

You guys are going to break the quote button again if this keeps up

[Stardrifter_WA]

Let me be clear here. I am not an economist.

Reading some of these replies here is amusing, although the subject certainly isn't. How many here actually have a real grasp of macro and micro economics? Really, how many? Any practising economists here? Come on, you can own up now

I certainly don't have a grasp of it......and I have actually studied it, as units in management studies. It is bewildering, which is why the world is in such a 'financial hand-basket to hell'! I am fairly sure few would be brave enough to deny that. A country cannot keep accumulating debt indefinitely.....it is a house of cards, which will eventually topple. You simply cannot have infinite growth, it can't be done. Something eventually has to give.

The highest debt to GDP ratio in the world, according to the World Bank include Zimbawe at approximately 218% GDP and Japan, which tops the list, at 220% GDP, whilst Australia is around 23% GDP, with the US at 73% GDP. The least amount of debt to GDP being North Korea at 0.4% GDP, which isn't surprising, as who the hell would want to lend them money? Japan's interest rate, like many countries is sitting at 0. Not much room to stimulate the economy, hey?

The bottom line is Governments, of all persuasion, spend money, usually money they don't have, nor which the poor old taxpayer can afford, to further their own desires or agendas, all the while, trying to keep disparate groups happy. Not an easy task.

It doesn't matter what they spend it on, whether it is wasted or not, as it keeps money circulating, which constantly percolates throughout the community. If Governments stop spending, money stops circulating, and thus stimulation of the economy draws down. Not a good place to be if you happen to be the one that loses your job, as I did during the GFC, and, if some had their way, no social security to fall back on.

It is mostly only those well off, or in secure employment who may advocate the eradication of social security. That's right, lets kill benefits and make a high number of people poor; that'll really help the country. Just remember, not everyone is as smart or clever as you and these people will always languish behind and will probably never be able to survive on their own. Oh well, survival of the fittest then. But remember, as there will always be someone on top, there will always be those on the bottom, its immutable. All we can hope for, at least I do, is to end up somewhere in the middle. Perhaps we should just 'euthanase' the poor, as the burdens that some seem to believe they are. Radical thought? No, it isn't a new idea, as the old sci-fi movie Logan's Run visited that concept.

Oh listen, I can hear howls of derision! I have been to poor countries and I am so very thankful that I am Australian and live in such a wonderful country, where I can make comments like these, without fear for my very life. Having seen what it is to be poor, I can certainly understand why so many make desperate attempts to get here. We are so very lucky living in Australia, even if you think otherwise.

But, back onto topic, it doesn't make any difference who you vote for....absolutely none, as you will still end up with a politician, usually someone who is ill equipped to run a $1.5 trillion economy. Then you multiply that by the number of seats and what do you get?

Well, I am reminded by the quote "What is a camel?" ....... A horse designed by a committee

For those that think times are grim, no they are not and if you think that statement is stupid, go read the Desiderata. I used to have it on the back of my loo door and contemplated it frequently.

Times are great! Why? Because I wake up every day still sucking in air. In fact, it is my motto. Any day you wake up still sucking in air is a great day indeed. Now the alternative, well that really is grim. Yeah, the grim reaper grim!

We live in difficult times and good times. Hmm, I seem to remember Charles Dickens start one of his novels that way, Yes, "It was the best of times and it was the worst of times", A Tale of Two Cities. First published in 1859....... So nothing really changes then?

Enjoy each and ever day.

Cheers Peter

[toc (Tim)]

Saw a great bumper sticker today - 'Voting for Tony Abbott because you hate Julia Gillard, is like eating $%# because you hate spinach.' Pretty much sums it up for me

Anyway, Im getting FTTH in a few months so Im not fussed who wins to be honest - they are both abysmal.

[AndrewJ]

I reckon if everyone in OZ
( who is sick of the current politics )
drew a square box on their ballots
and wrote alongside it "No One worthy of my vote"
then put a tick in it,
it might just rattle their little system enough
that those who would be kings got the blowtorch put on em.
Sure its an invalid vote, but if enough people did it
it couldnt be ignored, and the vote cant be passed along the chain
as per the present system.
That said, i still wonder why, when we are supposed to be in the best of times, we cant get a surplus????

Andrew

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

How many here actually have a real grasp of macro and micro economics? Really, how many? Any practising economists here? Come on, you can own up now
Cheers Peter

There are some who know exactly how the financial systems work; unfortunately most of them are white the collar criminals (literally, although not convicted yet) responsible for the magnitude of the current crisis. It's in their interests for us Plebs to find economics 'bewildering' so that we won't know who to blame.

Back in the Savings & Loans crisis hundreds of US bankers were convicted and jailed; the current crisis is far worse with plenty of evidence of fraud, yet we're not seeing truck loads of bankers heading to jail.

Politicians and bankers in all developed countries are guilty of immoral conduct and in the large economies that's mixed with criminal conduct.

[Steffen]

Capital must protect itself in every possible way, both by combination and legislation. Debts must be collected, mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.

When, through process of law, the common people lose their homes, they will become more docile and more easily governed through the strong arm of the government applied by a central power of wealth under leading financiers.

These truths are well known among our principal men, who are now engaged in forming an imperialism to govern the world. By dividing the voter through the political party system, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting for questions of no importance.

It is thus, by discrete action, we can secure for ourselves that which has been so well planned and so successfully accomplished.

-- Montagu Norman, Governor of The Bank Of England, addressing the United States Bankers' Association, NYC 1924

NB: This quotation was reprinted in the Idaho Leader, USA, on 26th August 1924, and has been read into the Australian Federal Hansard twice: by John Evans MP, in 1926, and by MD Cowan MP, in the session of 1930-31.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by casstony

There are some who know exactly how the financial systems work; unfortunately most of them are white the collar criminals (literally, although not convicted yet) responsible for the magnitude of the current crisis. It's in their interests for us Plebs to find economics 'bewildering' so that we won't know who to blame.

Back in the Savings & Loans crisis hundreds of US bankers were convicted and jailed; the current crisis is far worse with plenty of evidence of fraud, yet we're not seeing truck loads of bankers heading to jail.

Politicians and bankers in all developed countries are guilty of immoral conduct and in the large economies that's mixed with criminal conduct.

Funny you say that. I remember reading an article years ago about a researcher who did some profiling on a sample of successful corporate guys and a small population of inmates. They could almost join the dots. Like minded.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by toc

Saw a great bumper sticker today - 'Voting for Tony Abbott because you hate Julia Gillard, is like eating $%# because you hate spinach.' Pretty much sums it up for me .

I love spinach and I'm pretty sure it's not what I've tasted since 2007. Although my taste buds are gone now. I wouldn't know the good stuff from the everyday BS.

[LewisM]

So long as a Swan is stuffed, basted and roasted, all is good. I can tolerate Dillard, but I cannot tolerate the quasi-Communist excrement that is Wayne Swan.

Be nice to see Krudd lose his seat too - he'd sell it to the Chinese if he could.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by LewisM

So long as a Swan is stuffed, basted and roasted, all is good. I can tolerate Dillard, but I cannot tolerate the quasi-Communist excrement that is Wayne Swan.

Be nice to see Krudd lose his seat too - he'd sell it to the Chinese if he could.

Oh Lewis, such a lack of faith. We are so stupid when it comes to politics, we go by our emotions and how we feel when choosing whether we like someone or not, or by what we read and see in the media, like they always get the facts right. We certainly don't go by any factual information. Or are you well informed? I am honest enough to admit I have the same failings. I don't personally know the treasurer, nor do I have a grasp of accounting to know if he is doing a good job or not? I lack the facts! And, furthermore, you just cannot satisfy everyone, all the time, another one of those immutable laws. It will always be a balancing act. A tough task, it appears.

Could you do a better job, my friend? I know I certainly couldn't, I don't have a hide that is thick enough. Politics is probably the toughest job there is. It appears to be a tough and very dirty game, with the only winners being those that write the rules of the game.

Anyone who says they could do a better job are either ill informed, delusional, or are currently a politician?