I don't like rising costs either.
But then I look at what's going on in places like Syria and my rising costs pale into insignificance.
I wonder how many have written to their local MP or energy suppliers and voiced their concerns.
My guess is NONE.
Not for the 'Milky Bar Kid' or his ranga Narre Warren bogan accent succubus replacement that's for damn sure. Both of these disgusting alien creatures (and their state-level minions) have single handedly destroyed this country and our quality of life.
I must be bored, but here goes:
(And fwiw, I am no fan of the Labour party, wild horses could not get me to vote for them)
But... PGC's comments deserve a little context to see them for what they are.
In the period of time where (according to Mr Hunter) our country and way of life has been destroyed, single handedly by the dreaded ranga no less:
Our GDP has increased 15% compared to the OECD total in the same period. (Head and shoulders the best performer of any developed country)
Our minimum wage once adjusted for purchasing power parity is the highest in the OECD.
Our minimum wage relative to our average wage is the highest of any OECD country.
Our government debt as a percentage of GDP is the third lowest of all OECD countries... the U.K has 10x the percentage liability that we have for example.
When you compare the percentage of our income siphoned off in the form of various taxes in relation to all OECD countries, you will see that the truth of the matter with all emotive BS and political rhetoric aside is we are actually amongst the lowest taxed people in the developed world.... There are only 6 countries in the OECD where you get to keep more of your wage.
Never mind income, let's talk accumulated wealth... Australians rank second of all countries in the OECD, beaten only by the Swiss.
Also... More than three quarters of us have sufficient personal wealth to put us in the top 10% bracket. ie) In real terms, we are the wealthiest people in the world.
Our life expectancy when viewed in the context of the amount it costs us to achieve in terms of health care liability puts us third behind Italy and Japan.
However, I would suggest that if you are not prepared to do some real research and critical thinking, what about you appreciate what you have and stop throwing rocks where they are not deserved.
I wonder how many have written to their local MP or energy suppliers and voiced their concerns.
My guess is NONE.
I'm one. No reply yet
Quote:
Originally Posted by avandonk
Get over it folks 'the user pays!'.
Bert
OK then, pay up!
My solar power is sending electrons out to who knows where. Sooooo I can only assume you are all using them. Time to pay up.
Send cheques to .........
I must be bored, but here goes:
(And fwiw, I am no fan of the Labour party, wild horses could not get me to vote for them)
But... PGC's comments deserve a little context to see them for what they are.
In the period of time where (according to Mr Hunter) our country and way of life has been destroyed, single handedly by the dreaded ranga no less:
Our GDP has increased 15% compared to the OECD total in the same period. (Head and shoulders the best performer of any developed country)
Our minimum wage once adjusted for purchasing power parity is the highest in the OECD.
Our minimum wage relative to our average wage is the highest of any OECD country.
Our government debt as a percentage of GDP is the third lowest of all OECD countries... the U.K has 10x the percentage liability that we have for example.
When you compare the percentage of our income siphoned off in the form of various taxes in relation to all OECD countries, you will see that the truth of the matter with all emotive BS and political rhetoric aside is we are actually amongst the lowest taxed people in the developed world.... There are only 6 countries in the OECD where you get to keep more of your wage.
Never mind income, let's talk accumulated wealth... Australians rank second of all countries in the OECD, beaten only by the Swiss.
Also... More than three quarters of us have sufficient personal wealth to put us in the top 10% bracket. ie) In real terms, we are the wealthiest people in the world.
Our life expectancy when viewed in the context of the amount it costs us to achieve in terms of health care liability puts us third behind Italy and Japan.
However, I would suggest that if you are not prepared to do some real research and critical thinking, what about you appreciate what you have and stop throwing rocks where they are not deserved.
~c
What??? NOOOOO!!!! and with the horrible, nasty, uncaring, devil worshiping Greens at the helm running the country, don't let this sickly good news get out in case the facts are actually believed
I live in a small 2 bedroom 1950s fibro box, which of course has been heavily renovated. 3 years ago, I accepted the NSW govt offer on solar electricity and installed a 1.5 Kw system on my roof, and at the same time I converted my electric hot water, heating and cooking to gas. I insulated the roof, and installed vinyl cladding to the external walls to give me good insulation.
The combination of a SMALL house (all I need), solar power and gas, with good insulation means my electricity is ALWAYS in credit, which I then use to pay my gas bill. My TOTAL energy costs per annum are about $200.00, and I have 3 split system aircons I use in summer!
Trouble is, people want McMansions with everything that opens and shuts-then complain about running costs.
The only thing missing from the OECD statements is that "all of this has been achieved on the back of the highly productive, innovative, hard working, resource rich Western Australians" as it sure isn't coming from the rest of Australia which continues to suck WA dry. Imagine what your power bills would be like let alone employment if that little piece of paper in the House of Lords was signed recognising WA's right to exist as a sovereign nation seperate from the rest of Australia. In any case just vote for me at the next election and I will make it all better.
Great advice. Speak the truth, and you'll get the obligatory lecture from the usual suspects who are far out of tune with the reality facing many Australians.
After all, what's a $200 increase in electricity bill every few months for someone that owns an OTA more expensive than most people's cars eh?
News flash, the average battler doesn't give a crap about what the min wage-to average ratio is, how we compare to other OECD or whatever nations, or how we have the highest life expectancy after Japan... doesn't change the fact that prices here are sky high relative to many other nations and said prices are increasing almost exponentially. A $550-600 weekly wage doesn't go very far at all here, factor in $250-300 for rent, $100 for food, $50 for fuel, plus a few for other necessities, and you dont have very much to play with at all. Buying a house on that wage, forget it. Fancy numbers are not going to put food on the table or erase the fact that electricity costs hundreds more than it used to be for people trying to make ends meet.
Anyway, I shall steer clear of this thread from now
Last edited by pgc hunter; 20-06-2012 at 01:50 AM.
Imagine what your power bills would be like let alone employment if that little piece of paper in the House of Lords was signed recognising WA's right to exist as a sovereign nation seperate from the rest of Australia.
Hmmm lets see.
For a long time, WA was a basket case ( economically ),
supported by money from the East.
Now the boots on the other foot.
I suppose ( if you were a sovereign nation )
you may have suffered a "takeover" before you got rich,
and we would be speaking with someone else
Maybe if they sold "us" LNG at the same rates you sell it to the Japanese and Chinese, our energy would be cheaper???
Andrew ( really a croweater, but love a good interstate barney )
Maybe if they sold "us" LNG at the same rates you sell it to the Japanese and Chinese, our energy would be cheaper???
Wonder if it is possible to identify the cost comparison under freedom of information so that pressure can be placed using the media. Or whether the price is actually the same.
We more than likely use more gas than most other countries we are exporting too so in business sense should be cheaper. But excuses will prevail either way.
I worked up at Karratha building the first LNG train.
Was there when the first drops came out :-)
IIRC it was being sold at a markedly lower price than
it could be got in Oz, but thats also a function of
scale/bulk purchasing.
Be interesting to see what the current prices are.
The funniest part of the whole exercise was that in Karratha
( circa 1986 ) everyone was on horrendously expensive "bottled" gas.
So i guess "expensive" energy is nothing new.
Electricity Price Increases: (Disclaimer: IMHO and not necessarily correct for all or any regions)
1. Main cost component - Coal. Overseas demand has led to increased prices in the export of Coal. So local prices have increased too, of course.
2. Other main cost - Insurance. Huge increases in insurance costs over last decade due to natural disasters, thirds party litigation wins, and workers compensation.
3. Shareholder - State Government - demanding huge increases in dividends paid to the Government. (sometimes exceeding PAT)
4. Infrastructure Costs - refer 3 above. Due to ministerial direction not to invest in any new infrastructure over last two decades, huge investments now required.
5. Privatisation - Due to potential sale yielding quick (albeit short term) positive cash flow, and possibility of passing on need to invest in new infrastructure. Perceived competition was introduced to make them appear more attractive. Electricity now has a derivatives trading market. Profit takers dominate. Refer 3 above
6. Carbon Tax - Final nail in the coffin.
Some might think the above is probably classified, and that Mr Public is not supposed to know. [OOPS: did I say that out load.]
Very well said Clive Milne. I come from the UK, where national debt is something like 85% of GDP - essentially British children and grandchildren will be paying for their parents' and grandparents' excesses. Hearing Australian politicians grouse about "getting back to surplus" (a pipe dream for most other Western economies), and worrying about the poor state of their economy, rings very hollow indeed. Be happy that in Australia we live in a very wealthy country with a tiny fraction of the economic troubles of the rest of the world!
I see a few mentions of the carbon tax - clearly it's going to be made a scapegoat of every single price hike and job loss over the next few months, whether guilty or not. Abbot & Co, with plenty help from Rineheart and Murdoch, will see to that. For an alternate view on the economic effect of CO2 reduction measures, a read of this article is refreshing, where a carbon pricing initiative has been shown to strengthen, not weaken, economies. For energy bills, it should be remembered that while there will be a component of the carbon price in the energy bill rise, most consumers should get that particular money back through other rebates/tax cuts. Equally I accept that whether that happens correctly is at the whims of politicians and bureaucrats, who are tricky beasts whether left or right. But it should be noted that the net cost rise to consumers will be dominantly from the first five ponts of Allan_L's list (and should be entirely those five points), not the carbon tax.
Andy, you forgot to mention that most whinging Aussies are descendants from whinging poms (cheap shot, I know, pls don't take too much offence ).
Yes, ANY OECD economies will revolt just to get where Australia is at the moment. I still hold that the unchecked middle class welfare in this country has turned generations into self serving narssesitic swinging voters who are willing to bully whoever is in power to get their share of handouts and subsidies.
Off topic now, so I will shut up.
Bo
Andy, you forgot to mention that most whinging Aussies are descendants from whinging poms (cheap shot, I know, pls don't take too much offence ).
Yes, ANY OECD economies will revolt just to get where Australia is at the moment. I still hold that the unchecked middle class welfare in this country has turned generations into self serving narssesitic swinging voters who are willing to bully whoever is in power to get their share of handouts and subsidies.
Off topic now, so I will shut up.
Bo
None taken! Anyway, Poms are usually English, at least when it comes to rugby and cricket - boy do they complain when big football tournaments are on and they go out to Germany on penalties! Us Scots have had many worse names thrown at us, and probably including whingeing along the way...
I live in a small 2 bedroom 1950s fibro box, which of course has been heavily renovated. 3 years ago, I accepted the NSW govt offer on solar electricity and installed a 1.5 Kw system on my roof, and at the same time I converted my electric hot water, heating and cooking to gas. I insulated the roof, and installed vinyl cladding to the external walls to give me good insulation.
The combination of a SMALL house (all I need), solar power and gas, with good insulation means my electricity is ALWAYS in credit, which I then use to pay my gas bill. My TOTAL energy costs per annum are about $200.00, and I have 3 split system aircons I use in summer!
Trouble is, people want McMansions with everything that opens and shuts-then complain about running costs.
Please don't " fire arrows " at me .... I'm not here to be " smug " ... but I have to agree with Larry.
Yesterday ... I received my power bill ....( 10 months ago or there abouts.. .. I got rid of the electric stove ... put in a gas one ... installed a 2kw Solar Array... and not to much later ... got rid of the electric hot water system ... and installed a new Solar Hot Water system.
After I had done all of the above .... my next power bill was $144.50 in credit ..... yesterday my most recent power bill is showing $213.47 in credit.
Sure ... I forked out the best part of $8,000 to do all of this ( my choice and paid cash ... not under finance )... but it's been nearly a year now and I have not had to pay a single power bill since..!!
For heating ... We have a reverse cycle aircon' unit ... which when used for heating ... cost's 13c per hr..... information supplied from the Electricity Authority.
I'm not here guys to ' rub it in ' ... I do fully understand what your dealing with .... pure GREED ( and lack of maintenance by previous Govt' owners ) for a very necessary item in today's modern world.
To re-coup my outlay ....if prices continue to rise ... probably in the order of 3-5 years.... and provided the ' buy back ' tarriff remains the same.
If you can afford to do it ... and rebates are still available ... it's a good move.
Flash
Last edited by FlashDrive; 20-06-2012 at 03:46 PM.
I heard on the news this morning that it is official. South Australia is now the most expensive place in the world for the cost of Electricity, what a dubious honor. when the price rises hit, the minimum kwh rate we will be paying will be in the order of 35c, what a rort. In summer, this will be close to 40c/kwh, not bad considering 2 years ago we were paying less than 17c/kwh from memory. And people wonder why South Australians are so pissed off with these rises.
Fair and equitable rebates are still available in some states yet not others
The Federal Govt subsidised the intallation cost, while the State Govt managed the REBS
Unfortunately for most of us IMO they all got it wrong, while the rebates being offerred at state levels where high so was the cost of installing a PV system
Watch the cost drop dramatically (has started already) when all states stop offering rebates and the price of a PV system is no longer subsidised Federally.
If it's like WA people will see no benefit in going solar if the electricity supplier doesn't offer at least a 1:1 rebate
Geoff, I reckon writing to the local MP's and getting a decent response would be akin to trying to stick a pound of butter up a bull's bum with a read hot darning needle. IE impossible. There would be so much "duck shoving" going on, on both sides of the fence.
What??? NOOOOO!!!! and with the horrible, nasty, uncaring, devil worshiping Greens at the helm running the country, don't let this sickly good news get out in case the facts are actually believed 
).
when the price rises hit, the minimum kwh rate we will be paying will be in the order of 35c, what a rort. In summer, this will be close to 40c/kwh, not bad considering 2 years ago we were paying less than 17c/kwh from memory. And people wonder why South Australians are so pissed off with these rises.
