Orion Optics AG12 astrograph - First Light! - new Starfire comparison

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by batema

Hi MIke,

I have watched your posts with great interest after seeing these scopes a some time ago. I think the images look excellent but was wondering how you managed to bring out the vibrant blue colours in Omega Cent. I (am still learning) select the bluish stars and then boost their coulour. Did you do anything to boost there colours or did the colours come in that way. eXCITING TIMES AHEAD.

Mark

HI Mark

Well honestly and maybe it's my imagination but the star colours did seem easier to reveal ...maybe it's a reflector issue? The focus certainly didn't vary between filters so maybe that helped too?

Otherwise it is just a matter of sellecting the stars using Noel Carbones (sp?) action set in PS and uping saturation and tweeking the colour balance, not hard if your stars aren't over saturated

Mike

[TrevorW]

I'd be happy with that

crisp detail across the FOV

now comes the fine tuning and more award winning photo's

[Craig_L]

Wow. That's a great comparison.

Still see those little halos/reflections on the brighter stars with the 6" Starfire though not as pronounced, so maybe they're caused by the Ha filter. Doesn't seem present in the other images at all.

Great images.

[DavidU (Dave)]

Congrats Mike, I'm very happy for you and I look forward to some sensational images.
Interesting to see what depth a mere 20 min of exposure does !

[alexch (Alex)]

Looks like a winner, Mike!

The mirrors must be first-class - great sharp field all the way. Who needs mosaics if you get 2.6-degree field with 12" of aperture!

Can't wait to see the real images from darker skies.

Cheers,
Alex

[John Hothersall]

Thats a great comparison showing results from the 2 scopes, reflections around stars are from Astronomik filters which seem to give this with mirrored scopes as I got them with my reflector so moved to Astrodon filters so its not the wynne corrector lens group OO make causing this.

Once properly collimated stars will be better resolved, you may need software to collimate and will have to do it examining stars in the corners, took P Shah a couple of night to do his - this unfortunately is the downside of having a fast mirrored scope with very wide field CCD.

I am really pleased you got the quality you wanted and can only imagine a full image effort from a dark site - bet you've got lots of targets lined up over the Winter.

John.

[allan gould]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

To see the power of this platform, compare the 10 X 2min Ha Cats Paw image above taken with the AG12 in moonlit and light polluted skies to a 9 X 10min version taken with the standard candle best in the business 6" Starfire under dark moonless skies:

Cats Paw with 6" Starfire

Mike

Great set of comparison shots Mike. That Starfire is crap - send it to me and I'll refigure the glass.
Just so pleased your new scope meets yout expectations.
Allan

[avandonk]

Looks very good to me Mike. I upsized your images and made an animated gif. It had to be this big to have any hope of seeing a difference.

Here 9MB

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...03/mikenew.gif

Click on the image to see at full resolution where you click.


Any fast reflector that is almost as good as a Starfire in resolution is astounding. Especially considering first light and no final tweaks to collimation etc. that comes with long experience is amazing.

I feel very relieved for your gamble turning into a win.

You are also welcome to link to the GIF image Mike if it suits you.

Bert

[SkyViking (Rolf)]

Those test images are indeed impressive. Congratulations with your new toy Mike! Based on the Cat's Paw image I must say the light gathering power looks massive. Have you thought of a name yet for your new scope?

I have just finished building my new OTA (thread now posted in the ATM section) and was especially curious to see how your diffraction spikes turned out. They look great in your images, and as I anticipated they are quite short but also thick, which is due to the thick spider vanes of the AG12. I have also noticed a similar but fainter halo effect around bright stars in the test images from my own new OTA and am not sure what is causing them. As John says it may be the filters in your case, but I didn't use filters so I suppose it can be caused by any number of things depending on the actual scope being used. Either way it only adds to the fun of learning all the ins and outs of a new piece of equipment

I'm very happy for you and definitely looking forward to seeing the first deep field taken on a moonless night with your new scope!

[suma126 (Shane)]

omega looks awesome well done. happy Easter

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Hey thanks so much everyone, I have read all your replies and I appreciate the well wishes, most of you knew of my severe trepidation leading up to this venture so the positive results so far have lowered my anxiety levels considerably

Craig: The off axis halos are simply a function of the outer field correction provided by the 3" Wynn corrector field flattener.

Alex: Yes I believe the optics are fine examples and I agree a 2.6deg diagonal is pretty big huh?

John: I am with you on the need for a final tweek but I am not sure how to go about it exactly..? I am thinking CCD inspector may be required unless somone has a good method for tweeking fast Newtonian image quality on-camera...? Not sure it is the Astronomik filters par se, I ahve the latest low reflection versions the halos are mostly present in the Halpha shots and I am sure it is simply a function of the corrector and CCD window...but if I ever get the opportunity to use some Astrodons (not likely ) meeer..who knows..?

Allan: No you can't have the Starfire, it is now used as a spotting scope so I can see a few km's out across Newcastle from our loungeroom

Bert: Thanks for that Giff, it is very revealing. One thing though did you coregister the Starfire image to the AG12 image or visa versa? ie which one was altered and distorted to match the other? The Starfire is simply unmatched in the 1200mm FL class of scope, as far as resolution goes, so I look forward to tweeking the AG12 collimation and getting it under some better seeing

Rolf: yes I think the filter halos are indeed a function of the corrector, Wynne correctors can do this I believe..? It seems only really noticable with the Ha filter.?..and I am not in a position to change filter brands anyway so I have to live with it Name..? yes she is an astrograph so (courtesy of my wife's suggestion) her name is "Agi"

Again thanks everyone for your replies

Mike

[avandonk]

I used the Starfire image as the reference in Registar Mike.
The orientation of the two gifs are obvious.

I also made a hdr using the Starfire image to be one stop less than the new scope without any adjustment of your original images.

HDR here 6MB
http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...03/mikehdr.jpg

Animated GIF 16MB here.

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...mikenewHDR.gif

It is not ideal but the very dim tight stars from the Starfire come up a treat so does the dim HA from the new scope.

Bert

[marki]

As I said before it looks very promising, now how about a nice 10 panel by 10 panel mosiac just to give yourself a little challenge .

Mark

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

I used the Starfire image as the reference in Registar Mike.
The orientation of the two gifs are obvious.

I also made a hdr using the Starfire image to be one stop less than the new scope without any adjustment of your original images.

HDR here 6MB
http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...03/mikehdr.jpg

Animated GIF 16MB here.

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...mikenewHDR.gif

It is not ideal but the very dim tight stars from the Starfire come up a treat so does the dim HA from the new scope.

Bert

So the AG12 image was distorted to match the Starfire shot then?

Although I am sure I will do better with the AG12 in time, the Starfire is a bleedin masterpeice huh?

Interesting comparisons.

I have to say though, the HDR combo does look a bit yukky

Thanks mate

Mike

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

I used the Starfire image as the reference in Registar Mike.
The orientation of the two gifs are obvious.

I also made a hdr using the Starfire image to be one stop less than the new scope without any adjustment of your original images.

HDR here 6MB
http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...03/mikehdr.jpg

Animated GIF 16MB here.

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.co...mikenewHDR.gif

It is not ideal but the very dim tight stars from the Starfire come up a treat so does the dim HA from the new scope.

Bert

Well...I think I have done the AG12 a bit of a disservice ...because the AG12 Cats Paw shot was such a short set of exposures I used noise reduction on it and I have now discovered that this actually blured the stars and lost some of the faint ones ...I just looked at a less processed version from earlier in the processing routine and doh! Pays to be more careful .

So hold that thought, I'm going out now but I will post a better resolution comparison when I ge home.

Mike

[h0ughy (David)]

nice results Mike

[Stevec35 (Steve)]

Looks very promising Mike. I think whatever problems you have left are minor.

Cheers

Steve

[Paul Haese]

Looks good Mike. Stars in all the corners are slightly elongated with the bottom left and right being more noticable overall. No doubt just some spacing issues, I am sure you will take care of that.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

As stated in an earlier post, my original processing on the very brief AG12 first light Cats Paw image to remove the noise, also blured the stars and wiped out many of the fainter ones - I was rushing with excitment .

This time I have compared raw combines with only DDP filter applied in similar strengths to each image, no noise reduction or extra sharpening.

Now in these two 100% crops we can compare the resolution acheived by taking 9 X 10min with a Astrophysics 6" Starfire APO against 10 X 2min taken with the Orion Optics AG12. Both images were taken through the same 11.8nm Astronomik Halpha filter.

While the AG12 image was snapped under a 3/4 moon (about 30deg away in the sky!) and in severe light pollution, there was no moon or light pollution for the Starfire image so with a 12nm Ha filter in use the signal to noise comparison really isn't fair.

The resolution however is essentially the same with only a lack of exposure and the seeing really being the determining factors - seeing was better on the night using the Starfire.

After this simple test exposure I would have to say that for a fast corrected Newtonian astrograph with a wopping 2.6deg diagonal FOV to have resolution this closely comparable to a World leading APO refractor is really quite remarkable!

Here is the comparison:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/134190322/original

Mike

[Tandum (Robin)]

Struth, 2 min subs compared to 10. Looks like a keeper to me Mike.