PME Commissioned ... finally!!!

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Just a correction. I use AAG Tpoint mapper (free), not automapper 2, which I understand is not as userfriendly.

[gregbradley]

Thanks Fred that's helpful.

Greg.

[frolinmod]

I love my Paramount ME.

I've heard that the first production run of the MX has already completely sold out and some people will have to wait for the second production run. Amazing.

Why aren't you guys using the built-in T-point auto-mapper in TheSkyX? It works quite well in my experience.

I don't have a permanent observatory. The horizons in my backyard are very bad! I envy you guys with permanent observatories. I have to set up on an Astro-Physics portable pier (or Rob Miller tripod if the ground is very unlevel), even when in my own backyard. I car camp with my ME.

The PE on this mount is so good it's almost not worth bothering programming the PEC. But I did anyway. I used CCDsoft to collect the data and the built-in PEC curve fitting in TheSkyX.

I find polar alignment via T-point to be quicker and easier than drift alignment. I do three or four freshly synced 25 to 30-point automated runs, tweaking the knobs as directed after each run, then do a 150-200 point run for good pointing (~10 arc-seconds RMS with the supermodel). I like being able to kick back in my lounge chair after dusk while the mount does all the real work. The pointing really is 10-arc seconds too. Objects land right on CCDsoft's cross-hair box in the center of the CCD image. This is with a C-14 EdgeHd operating at FL=3911mm (almost four meters) with the mirror lock knobs engaged. I use a TCF-Si for focusing. I sure do like that new t-point supermodel feature!

When you're doing automated T-point mapping runs, you might as well bin 3x3. It's faster and it won't hurt your pointing accuracy one iota. I actually bin 4x4 with the QSI-583wsg.

In my experience you can't use ProTrack effectively without a good model mapping a large number of points. About 150 or more seems to work well for me.

The pointing does not change with power cycling. It takes an equipment change to affect the pointing. Minor equipment changes you should do a short mapping run (at least six points with some on each side of the meridian and at least two at high declinations) to maintain pointing accuracy. Major equipment changes you should probably do another full pointing run.

Because I usually don't have Internet access (and no cell phone service either) where I set up, I use a GPS receiver with 1PPS as a stratum-1 time source in NTP. This works extraordinarily well.

[gregbradley]

That's a good writeup. So obviously you'd recommend the SkyX. A lot of those add-on programs must be included in it.

I finally got to read the Automapper II online documentation so I can set it up to work.

Hopefully it will work next time I use it.

Yes the PME is a nice piece of equipment. The MX on paper sounds as good if not better.

Greg.

[Moon (James)]

I car camp with my ME.

Ernie
If your have a picture of that, I'd love to see it. Sounds like a lot of fun.
James

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by frolinmod

I love my Paramount ME.

Why aren't you guys using the built-in T-point auto-mapper in TheSkyX? It works quite well in my experience.

I'll be using TSX when I get a new laptop - hopefully in a couple of weeks. I'll finish my review of TSX when it's all up & working. In the meantime AutomapperII is a piece of cake to use with TS6 & CCDSoft.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by frolinmod

Why aren't you guys using the built-in T-point auto-mapper in TheSkyX? It works quite well in my experience..

Ummm, because you have then have to buy a special Tpoint version all over again . free AAG Tpoint mapper, standard Tpoint most already have and Sky pro does just fine without all the upgrade gouging.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Ummm, because you have then have to buy a special pinpoint version all over again . free AAG Tpoint mapper, standard pinpoint most already have and Sky pro does just fine without all the upgrade gouging.

Why do you keep saying that Fred? TSX does not need Pinpoint. It plate solves just fine and, anecdotally, more accurately that TS6. Is it a gouge? Naaah ... just spend $15k on a new PME and it's free!!

[frolinmod]

Originally Posted by Moon

Ernie
If your have a picture of that, I'd love to see it. Sounds like a lot of fun.
James

I'll be packing up the car and going up into the local mountains later this month. I'll take some pictures then. In the mean time, this one will have to do:

http://members.cox.net/nairobi/IMG_0346-C1.jpg

[frolinmod]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Ummm, because you have then have to buy a special pinpoint version all over again . free AAG Tpoint mapper, standard pinpoint most already have and Sky pro does just fine without all the upgrade gouging.

None of TheSky6, TheSkyX, nor CCDsoft use pinpoint. Software Bisque use their own plate solver inside TheSky which in my experience works well.

In my opinion, when working with Software Bisque software, it's best to purchase their Universal Subscription.

And yes, I do wish software wasn't so expensive. That's why I haven't purchased Maxim DL or Adobe Photoshop. Prices are astronomical.

[Moon (James)]

I'll be packing up the car and going up into the local mountains later this month. I'll take some pictures then

Sounds like fun (with some heavy lifting thrown in for good measure)

Lately I have reverted to drift aligning the PME

I've always been a fan of drift aligning, but after thinking about it some more, I don't think it's as good as a proper tpoint model to give you your necessary adjustments.

I did a test recently and it seemed like I was adjusting the polar alignment to take account of tube flex, and in the process tpoint reported the polar alignment was getting worse. If that's true, I would expect the mount to perform well only in that part of the sky, but terrible elsewhere. Whereas in tpoint, the tube flex term can be removed before the necessary polar alignment adjustment is calculated. I think this is a better approach, especially when you turn on protrack.
James

[frolinmod]

I absolutely believe in using Tpoint for polar alignment. It's quick, easy and quantitative. When you use Tpoint, it doesn't just tell you which direction you're off, it tells you 1) how many arc-seconds you're off in each direction and 2) which knobs to turn, in which directions to turn them and how much to turn them.

I just wish the adjustment knobs on the PME were larger and finer so that small differences could be more easily dialed in. Fractional knob "tics" are not easy to dial in. I do use Rob Miller's PME "wrench" set to make it a hair easier. In particular I find Rob's tool for turning the leveling knobs to be indispensable.

Did you know that you can put TWO bubble levels on the PME? I have two of them on mine, one on each side. They don't agree with each other. They don't wildly disagree, but they don't give identical readings either. I split the difference when I level the mount.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

I dunno...the PME just needs a good Polar Scope ...this took about 10min to align

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...31590/original



The above was done after using the polar scope but I didn't use the scales in the scope but rather I had drift aligned in the past and memorised the field in the polar finder so just pointed the cross hairs at the known pole...I recon I now get it better than Taks guarantee of 2' just using the polar scope ..of course draw back is if you can't see the pole

Sorry Marcus, you know I love your PME (and you) and I would loooove a PME too but all this modelling required to get essentially what we have with our Tak mounts in minutes would be a pain if I bought a PME and remianed portable

Obviously in an observatory (and for many other reasons) the PME is king

Mike

[gregbradley]

Pinpoint LE is not made by Software Bisque it is made by the Maxim DL company. So its not required in any Software Bisque application.

I think the free AAG automapper requires it.

Greg.

[gregbradley]

Hi Mike,

Did you find the FS2 controller improved the performance of your mount?

I don' think my NJP is capable of that image. But then maybe it is and all it needs is an expert with the polar alignment scope.

I don't know how you manage to use a Polar Alignment scope in the southern hemisphere - that is impressive. I even took a CCD image of the south celestial pole to see if I could find that trap of stars and still couldn't see it.

Greg.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

I dunno...the PME just needs a good Polar Scope ...this took about 10min to align

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...31590/original



The above was done after using the polar scope but I didn't use the scales in the scope but rather I had drift aligned in the past and memorised the field in the polar finder so just pointed the cross hairs at the known pole...I recon I now get it better than Taks guarantee of 2' just using the polar scope ..of course draw back is if you can't see the pole

Sorry Marcus, you know I love your PME (and you) and I would loooove a PME too but all this modelling required to get essentially what we have with our Tak mounts in minutes would be a pain if I bought a PME and remianed portable

Obviously in an observatory (and for many other reasons) the PME is king

Mike

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

I dunno...the PME just needs a good Polar Scope ...this took about 10min to align

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...31590/original



The above was done after using the polar scope but I didn't use the scales in the scope but rather I had drift aligned in the past and memorised the field in the polar finder so just pointed the cross hairs at the known pole...I recon I now get it better than Taks guarantee of 2' just using the polar scope ..of course draw back is if you can't see the pole

Sorry Marcus, you know I love your PME (and you) and I would loooove a PME too but all this modelling required to get essentially what we have with our Tak mounts in minutes would be a pain if I bought a PME and remianed portable

Obviously in an observatory (and for many other reasons) the PME is king

Mike

Hehehe ... you've PA'ed so much you can probably do it WITHOUT a polar scope! ... just eyeballing it must get you close!

Personally I wouldn't dream of using (or recommending) a PME as a portable mount although I know it's done. I'll bet you though that the PMX will end up being the ultimate portable mount!

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Hehehe ... you've PA'ed so much you can probably do it WITHOUT a polar scope! ... just eyeballing it must get you close!

Personally I wouldn't dream of using (or recommending) a PME as a portable mount although I know it's done. I'll bet you though that the PMX will end up being the ultimate portable mount!

Yeh I have polar aligned a few times Does the PMX have a polar scope?

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Hi Mike,

Did you find the FS2 controller improved the performance of your mount?

I don' think my NJP is capable of that image. But then maybe it is and all it needs is an expert with the polar alignment scope.

I don't know how you manage to use a Polar Alignment scope in the southern hemisphere - that is impressive. I even took a CCD image of the south celestial pole to see if I could find that trap of stars and still couldn't see it.

Greg.

The FS2 is excellent, very simple and does the job, I didn't see any obvious improvement in teh tracking though - was still just as good with the previous Tak motors...and errr, you didn't read my post properly, I don't use the complex Tak scale visible in the polar finder, just the cross hairs. I did a very accurate drift align one night and then just memorised where the polar finder cross hairs were pointing, voila! now I just point and set. The particlular star field used to align off is pretty faint from a suburban location especially with the moon up, so that is one draw back of my method, from a dark sky it is very easy. I did the drift align back in 2005 so I adjusted for precession just last year

Mike

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Yeh I have polar aligned a few times Does the PMX have a polar scope?

...
Mike

Polar scope is an optional extra.

By the way, speaking of polar aligning, I did it again last night. I twitched the altitude down and now it's perfect! As a friend of mine likes to say "... if it's worth doing, it's worth doing PERFECTLY! ...".

Model result (only 100 stars this time, 9.2 arcsec RMS pointing) is here: http://www.pbase.com/gailmarc/image/133024552/original

[gregbradley]

You da man!

Greg.

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Polar scope is an optional extra.

By the way, speaking of polar aligning, I did it again last night. I twitched the altitude down and now it's perfect! As a friend of mine likes to say "... if it's worth doing, it's worth doing PERFECTLY! ...".

Model result (only 100 stars this time, 9.2 arcsec RMS pointing) is here: http://www.pbase.com/gailmarc/image/133024552/original

[gregbradley]

The FS2 is excellent, very simple and does the job, I didn't see any obvious improvement in teh tracking though - was still just as good with the previous Tak motors...and errr, you didn't read my post properly, I don't use the complex Tak scale visible in the polar finder, just the cross hairs. I did a very accurate drift align one night and then just memorised where the polar finder cross hairs were pointing, voila! now I just point and set. The particlular star field used to align off is pretty faint from a suburban location especially with the moon up, so that is one draw back of my method, from a dark sky it is very easy. I did the drift align back in 2005 so I adjusted for precession just last year

Mike[/QUOTE]


Oh I see, so you did.

How do you memorise a basically featureless field!! That's well done. I know there are some little asterisms like a J in the area.

I might try that approach with my NJP. I guess the problem I had was even at a dark site the polar scope doesn't have much brightness or resolution to show much. Perhaps I should give it another go.

I have the drift aligned position marked on my observatory ceiling at my dark site. I shove a torch in the back of the polar scope, it illuminates a little spot on the ceiling and I make a few minor adjustments (my house and my dark site observatory are not that different in lat/long) and its pretty close. So that's how I use my polar scope - its still handy hehehehe.

Greg.

Greg.