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Old 20-03-2011, 08:44 PM
TrevorW
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A question or proposition as to why we are not alone

Sceptics often argue that because we have not seen, found or heard from an alien life in our own small part of this galaxy then life elsewhere does not or cannot exist.

My own belief is that life does exist but we are yet to find it or on the otherhand never shall because of the constraints placed upon us and the distances involved.

Astronomers think that there are hundreds of billions galaxies in the universe, however the exact number is not known. But astronomers should know how many galaxies we’ve actually seen and discovered, right?

Well, not necessarily. “We don’t know,” says Ed Churchwell, professor of astronomy at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. “We know it’s a very large number.” In just one image for example, the Hubble Ultra Deep Field, above, there are about 10,000 galaxies visible.

In our own galaxy, There are between 100-300 billion stars in the Milky Way. At most, 8,479 of them are visible from Earth. Roughly 2,500 stars are available to the unaided eye in ideal conditions from a single spot at a given time.

But the number of galaxies will keep growing as our telescopes get better and can look out and back farther in time.


“To count them all, you have to be able to look far enough back in time or deep enough in space to see when galaxies were formed,” Churchwell says. “We haven’t reached that point yet. It’s not a well-determined number, but at some point we’re going to reach it.”


The estimate of how many galaxies there are in the universe is done by counting how many galaxies we can see in a small area of the sky. This number is then used to guess how many galaxies there are in the entire sky.


For the time being, the hundreds of billions in the tally are extrapolated from the Hubble Ultra Deep Field, taken over a time period in 2003 and 2004. Pointed at a single piece of space for several months — a spot covering less than one-tenth of one-millionth of the sky — Hubble returned an image of galaxies 13 billion light years away.


http://www.universetoday.com/wp-cont...ep-field-1.jpgHubble Deep Field. Credit: NASA


“You look at that and say, ‘How many galaxies can I see?’” Churchwell explains. “And that turns out to be a very large number.”

“Then you take that number of galaxies from that postage-stamp-sized piece of the sky and multiply it by the number of postage-stamp-sized pieces of sky,” Churchwell says. “And that turns out to be a much larger number.”


In the first Hubble Deep Field image, taken in 1995, there are about 3,000 galaxies visible in the image.


So if only 1 star in each galaxy has 1 planet that is capable of supporting life then in our Universe there would be baed on these estimates 100's of billion alien life forms but because of the distances between galaxies and the constraints placed upon us we may never come in contact with an alinet life form, but to state they don't exist because we haven't found any is IMO ludicrous.

Last edited by TrevorW; 20-03-2011 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 20-03-2011, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TrevorW View Post
but to state they don't exist becuase we haven't found them is IMO ludicrous.
So too, is to state that they do exist .. especially if we'll never know .. as you state, we'll never reach them ..

(Better off stating that they may or may not exist. Its more accurate and better balanced).

See also, the Fermi Paradox .. its all been said before.

Cheers
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Old 20-03-2011, 10:39 PM
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shelltree (Shelley)
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I think we need to be open to all possibilities. There may be life on other planets and maybe even moons, it seems far more bewildering to think that we are the only planet amid goodness knows how many planets in the entire universe that has just the right conditions to harbour life.

But we don't have proof of it either so no matter how many times we say, "for sure there is life out there", we have no proof of it and until there is proof I can imagine, dream and speculate about what could be out there but nothing more. It is an amazing thought, that we are not alone but without some shred of evidence, I wouldn't say it's one way or the other.

We just have to hope
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Old 20-03-2011, 11:10 PM
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It's been shown that the building blocks of life - the elements C, N, O & H - are relatively abundant out there. So it's not absurd to think that there could be plenty of of examples of life through the universe.

However, the much deeper question becomes - is there any other human-like intelligence out there?
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Old 20-03-2011, 11:55 PM
Sylvain (Jon)
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That's a facinating topic.
I hope we'll make a discovery, find evidences, demonstrating the existence of life out there. And I hope to be around when that happens
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorW View Post
So if only 1 star in each galaxy has 1 planet that is capable of supporting life then in our Universe there would be based on these estimates 100's of billion alien life forms but because of the distances between galaxies and the constraints placed upon us we may never come in contact with an alinet life form, but to state they don't exist because we haven't found any is IMO ludicrous.
Fully agree

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Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
So too, is to state that they do exist .. especially if we'll never know .. as you state, we'll never reach them ..

(Better off stating that they may or may not exist. Its more accurate and better balanced).

See also, the Fermi Paradox .. its all been said before.

Cheers
K, Craig the Fermi paradox is a very compelling piece of Theoretical stuff....hehehehhe. Sure there is no hard evidence for extra-terrestrial life,
but....in your heart Craig....your deep down feeling .......statistics and theory aside ....... including the Fermi Paradox.....
do you really think there is life out there?
Simple yes or no.......and please, no - "what type of life" ..... just life in a sentient form....ie like you and I....

Cheers
Bartamoeba......
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:18 AM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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but....in your heart Craig....your deep down feeling .......statistics and theory aside ....... including the Fermi Paradox.....
do you really think there is life out there?
Simple yes or no.......and please, no - "what type of life" ..... just life in a sentient form....ie like you and I....

Cheers
Bartamoeba......


and no more links or copy/pastes.
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:21 AM
casstony
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We'll only ever know if life exists elsewhere if we find it or if we finish searching all of the universe without finding life. Since it's in our nature to explore we may as well assume there is life, keep searching and not worry about not knowing the answer to the question. The journey is its own reward.
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:28 AM
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Why would you want to find life like us? We are violent, cruel, greedy and cunning. Every time we get a better technology we turn it into a weapon. Our richest countries have people starving and dying for lack of medical care. War, violence, intimidation and just good old financial power are our most used ways of dealing with problems.

Perhaps we should hope that if we do find life that it is nothing like us.

Brian
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:29 AM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Originally Posted by casstony View Post
We'll only ever know if life exists elsewhere if we find it or if we finish searching all of the universe without finding life. Since it's in our nature to explore we may as well assume there is life, keep searching and not worry about not knowing the answer to the question. The journey is its own reward.
Great answer!

As slim as it currently is, can you imagine really finding another intelligent lifeform out there, or even making contact somehow

Emotions would run beserk!
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:32 AM
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Perhaps we should hope that if we do find life that it is nothing like us.
Brian
At some point in the future we will evolve to be nothing like us, assuming we survive the current hazardous stage of our evolution.
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Old 21-03-2011, 12:41 AM
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At some point in the future we will evolve to be nothing like us.
I should like to see some evidence for that belief.

As far as I know as long as there have been humans, humans have been herd animals with a great fear of 'others'. We have always been territorial and violent. Our fight or flight instinct is still as strong today as it ever has been.

I grant that our technology has advanced but has our morality? We build power plants that are inherently dangerous. We have weapons of mass destruction. Show me a country where the majority of people do not need stimulants that, to a greater or lesser degree change reality to get through the day.

When might this evolution you proclaim start?
Brian
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:02 AM
casstony
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The pace of our evolution has been astonishing considering the short time we've been around and that pace has increased at an increasing rate. We've learned to live cooperatively in ever larger groups though we're still burdened with the competitive nature that was necessary in our early development. Our ability to cooperate will either catch up to our technological development or our technology will destroy us - time will tell.

Even if our technology destroys us it may continue on as a self-reliant, evolving artificial intelligence. Possibilities are endless.
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:13 AM
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Brian W (Brian)
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The pace of our evolution has been astonishing considering the short time we've been around and that pace has increased at an increasing rate. We've learned to live cooperatively in ever larger groups though we're still burdened with the competitive nature that was necessary in our early development. Our ability to cooperate will either catch up to our technological development or our technology will destroy us - time will tell.

Even if our technology destroys us it may continue on as a self-reliant, evolving artificial intelligence. Possibilities are endless.
Depending upon where one draws the line we have been around for up to 4 million years.

As for living cooperatively in ever larger groups might I point you to Libya? Perhaps China and Tibet. Or perhaps just to any of the genocidal programs of the modern world... starting with the Tasmanians and progressing to Auschwitz and then perhaps Africa?

It will not be our technology that destroys us it will be our greed.

The possibilities may be endless but if the universe has any luck at all humanity will be finite.

Consider for just a moment how much better off Mother Earth and all the rest of the creatures that inhabit this planet would be without us.

Brian
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:19 AM
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Also, as I have mentioned before in another thread on this same topic, even if we did hear from a very distant life-form, they may not even exist any more

SuperNovae, self-destruction, Meteor, etc.

Hello . . . Hello . . . Hello . . hmmm, they must have hung up!
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:23 AM
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and no more links or copy/pastes.
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:35 AM
casstony
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I think you're focusing exclusively on the negative Brian - it's not hard to find the good side of human nature either.

All species have to compete to survive; we're in a transition period where we've achieved a level of intelligence that may not be beneficial to our species survival unless we can alter our competitive instinct. Perhaps that pressure to cooperate or die will lead us to continue to evolve through this phase.

We learned to cooperate first in family groups, then in tribal groups because it benefited our survival. Learning to cooperate on a planetary scale would benefit the survival of our species today - maybe that pressure will lead us to continue evolving and ensure a future for humanity.
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Old 21-03-2011, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by casstony View Post
We'll only ever know if life exists elsewhere if we find it or if we finish searching all of the universe without finding life. Since it's in our nature to explore we may as well assume there is life, keep searching and not worry about not knowing the answer to the question. The journey is its own reward.
Very true.....in all respects of your post.
Magellan, Columbus et al - they all went out and found new "whatever's" ....

The journey is THE REWARD.

There IS life out there ( my opinion - no scientific back up-) and wether we are close enough to meet them - or them to meet us, it's all just a matter of time.....(space time .......

Just found a piece of music/song in my library, which could/can meld(?) into this post......

The Shamen...various tracks....
Space Time;
Re-Evolution

Check out the Lyrics......and the audio!!!

Bartman
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Old 21-03-2011, 10:36 AM
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I want to believe!
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Old 21-03-2011, 10:52 AM
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I believe there is life out in the COSMOS Can I Prove it No!
I hope that other life is found in the galaxy is found in my life time be it Microbes or intelligent
Cheers
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