Mounts - the expensive ones

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by MuntiNZ

Hi mate another mount for you list is the ASA DDM!
Mine is landed in country but I am stuck in the desert right now.
When I pick it up I will do the reviews and pics thingee here for ya all.

That will be an interesting read Daz - hurry up and go home!!

Cheers, Marcus

[h0ughy (David)]

reading all of the above makes me regret something i have recently done - or not done as the case maybe - well thats life. There would be some advantages in being single

might have to research a bit more on some of the mounts, given the fact i cant leave the gear imaging by itself unattended (unfortunately our neck of the woods is no longer "safe to leave" overnight so that may rule out some options for me anyway. Payload, ease of use, reliability, price, spares and repairs. not everyone needs a PME (i am trying to keep telling myself that) but i suppose it comes down to comparing the total package?

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

There would be some advantages in being single

You got that right Dave.

[Tandum (Robin)]

Dave, might be time to make a stand as I did. I bought an em-200 and decided that if it was troo heavy for that mount I didn't want it. Example being the recent GSO RC-10 for sale was too heavy for the mount so look for a vcm-260 instead, 10kgs lighter.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by Tandum

Dave, might be time to make a stand as I did. I bought an em-200 and decided that if it was troo heavy for that mount I didn't want it. Example being the recent GSO RC-10 for sale was too heavy for the mount so look for a vcm-260 instead, 10kgs lighter.

but where does one draw the line - i would like to get maximum payload if i could i would love to have on there the 127 and the 10" plus the 60mm lunt and guidescope in one complete platform - for me to achieve that i would require a very stable mount - hence the discussion

i am looking at Value for money now as i realise that this probably wont be my last throw of the dice but will most certainly help me move along in the hobby . So the G11 becomes a portable mount once again, keep the eq6 and move on the eq5pro.....

but its what i choose now which is the main problem.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by MuntiNZ

Hi mate another mount for you list is the ASA DDM!
Mine is landed in country but I am stuck in the desert right now.
When I pick it up I will do the reviews and pics thingee here for ya all.

wow just looked up the price for that

[mick pinner]

sit back and look at all the stuff you have bought up until now and the money you have lost or still tied up in equipment that you no longer want, wish you had waited and bought the mount you really wanted? bet you do, why would you be any different to the rest of us.
you have enough information at hand to deceide which mount you need so make the decision, stick with it and save, you will then be happy.

[MuntiNZ (Daz)]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

wow just looked up the price for that

Yep mate its about 15500 AUD now but I payed more coz the $ was lower!!!
Still the best cash I ever spent but!
And I havent even seen it yet!
Plus whats a Paramont cost and the pme is not direct drive??

[gregbradley]

How about this - an AP900 + portable pier for US$6500;

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=709190

Greg.

[bokglob (Darrell)]

ASA are having an "introductory price sale" on there DDM60 for the first 100 orders. Secs are phenomonal, but only carries 25kg for about 10k. Having said that, if I had ten grand I'd buy one. DD, wow

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

How about this - an AP900 + portable pier for US$6500;

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=709190

Greg.

thanks Greg - went and had a look and realised that this mount has seen a lot of action - the wear and tear shows a lot of photon action

[jase (Jason)]

When you start to pay big money for a mount, your judgement should extend beyond its tracking performance and carrying capacity. You should also be weighing up an additional couple of items;

• Software - In today's realm of high end mounts, most imagers are results focused. No point having a sophisticated mount sitting idle not producing the goods. As such a mount should easily integrate with a variety of software to streamline the data acquisition process with minimal effort. The money we're talking you should expect it to work out of the box or near to.
• Technical Support - Ideally support should be local or close to your time zone. Dealing with the US isn't too bad, but Europe painful. Make sure you don't come across language barriers when you need to pick up the phone. Bouncing emails back and forth can be unproductive at times. If the mount has a large install base, you'll probably find other users who'll resolve your issue quickly as the first point of call.
• Ease of use - Its the mount's servo controller system (its brains) that make the decisions. If this is software assisted with a common product, it will make it easier for the operator to quickly configure and operate. Most if not all will integrate with ASCOM allowing you to make use of ASCOM client of choice. You will still need core software to be the ASCOM hub.

I'm sure there are a few other items which I've missed. Point being however that the mount itself, while a very important one should also be considered with the above items.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by jase

When you start to pay big money for a mount, your judgement should extend beyond its tracking performance and carrying capacity. You should also be weighing up an additional couple of items;

• Software - In today's realm of high end mounts, most imagers are results focused. No point having a sophisticated mount sitting idle not producing the goods. As such a mount should easily integrate with a variety of software to streamline the data acquisition process with minimal effort. The money we're talking you should expect it to work out of the box or near to.
• Technical Support - Ideally support should be local or close to your time zone. Dealing with the US isn't too bad, but Europe painful. Make sure you don't come across language barriers when you need to pick up the phone. Bouncing emails back and forth can be unproductive at times. If the mount has a large install base, you'll probably find other users who'll resolve your issue quickly as the first point of call.
• Ease of use - Its the mount's servo controller system (its brains) that make the decisions. If this is software assisted with a common product, it will make it easier for the operator to quickly configure and operate. Most if not all will integrate with ASCOM allowing you to make use of ASCOM client of choice. You will still need core software to be the ASCOM hub.

I'm sure there are a few other items which I've missed. Point being however that the mount itself, while a very important one should also be considered with the above items.

given what you have said, what would be your bucket list of order? - i know the pme etc will be on top, but more of the lower end to mid range etc given your parameters?

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

given what you have said, what would be your bucket list of order? - i know the pme etc will be on top, but more of the lower end to mid range etc given your parameters?

I think Greg nailed it well in his post.

A second hand AP1200 w/GTO would certainly meet your critera, though doesn't have all the bells and whistles as a mount with the Bisque MKS-4000 system. I would also suggest hunting down a used Paramount GT-1100s w/MKS-3000 system. They come up on astromart now and then, and are a steal for what you get given they have all the smarts for unattended use. This is ultimately a cost versus functionality discussion.

[MuntiNZ (Daz)]

Originally Posted by jase

When you start to pay big money for a mount, your judgement should extend beyond its tracking performance and carrying capacity. You should also be weighing up an additional couple of items;

• Software - In today's realm of high end mounts, most imagers are results focused. No point having a sophisticated mount sitting idle not producing the goods. As such a mount should easily integrate with a variety of software to streamline the data acquisition process with minimal effort. The money we're talking you should expect it to work out of the box or near to.
• Technical Support - Ideally support should be local or close to your time zone. Dealing with the US isn't too bad, but Europe painful. Make sure you don't come across language barriers when you need to pick up the phone. Bouncing emails back and forth can be unproductive at times. If the mount has a large install base, you'll probably find other users who'll resolve your issue quickly as the first point of call.
• Ease of use - Its the mount's servo controller system (its brains) that make the decisions. If this is software assisted with a common product, it will make it easier for the operator to quickly configure and operate. Most if not all will integrate with ASCOM allowing you to make use of ASCOM client of choice. You will still need core software to be the ASCOM hub.

I'm sure there are a few other items which I've missed. Point being however that the mount itself, while a very important one should also be considered with the above items.

Ya mate this is why I brought the ASA!
Tons of software for it just about all the currently stuff works well with the DDM.
ASA are good as gold to deal with once you have got your head round the accents --- but then I was in NZ for a year or more so I know all about hard to understand accents!!
Tons of the DDM mounts around in Europe and the Asa Yahoo forum is active and they are helpful to.
Dunno about ease of use yet coz I havent even looked at my new DDm but it seems like the new and differentness of these direct drive mount with the high precision encoders is wearing off and every one is getting the hang of them. Itsall ASCom like most other mounts so no worries there!
When I did my homework I found that the mount I thought I would buy had just as many probs as any of the others so I reckoned that going up a notch and spending a few bucks more on the newert tech instead was a no brainer.
The direct drives will replace every thing else pretty soon I reckon specially at the top end any how.
So what did I get? The latest and the greatest with big load high precision no period error and that is starting to take over europe astro scenes and is supported by latest software apps and Ascom and has good support from the makers and users and for not much more than the next best thing which does have PE.

[gregbradley]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

thanks Greg - went and had a look and realised that this mount has seen a lot of action - the wear and tear shows a lot of photon action

I see - 2004 model.

I don't know that mounts wear out very fast. The gears I suppose do some work but I haven't heard of anyone complaining of an older mount losing its ability. I suspect mounts last a very long time unless abused.

You could use that fact to beat down the price more. The US economy is in the doldrums still and I see a lot of high end gear not selling on Astromart that normally would be sold in 24 hours. So its a buyers market. What if you beat him down to $6000 or even $5750 when he doesn't get any takers? Be harder to resist then eh? I wonder how much it would cost to send it to AP for a service and upgrades?
You get it for $5750 and send it to AP for another $1000 including a service and upgrades and you've got a good as new mount practically for half price plus a pier and accessories.

Also you can order a new AP900 without a wait list at the moment but they are $8750 new. The pier no doubt is another few thousand, then there's freight,insurance and GST.

I agree with Jase. I saw a Paramount GTS1100 with mks3000 system not so long ago on Astromart for a steal. I think it was around US$6000 or something similar. Again, an older mount if you are concerned about wear and tear.

What sort of budget are you considering as that usually is the ultimate parameter that must be met?

Are you looking for something more portable? High payload, high accuracy, PEC enabled, software friendly and backed up
ease of use, lots of accessories (like piers and pier adapters)??

If I were in the mid range capable but portable and easy to use mount market I would think AP900,
Tak EM400 (getting up there in price), Losmandy Titan, 2nd hand GTS1100 Paramount are around similar dollars. Ioptron has new mounts - I have no data about them though.

I have never heard anyone say anything but praise about AP mounts - so 900 or 1200 would be good. Tak EM400 similarly has a lot of happy users although the usual complaint is no PEC and basic hand controller. But then setup well it doesn't need it so much (PEC though should improve any mount surely). But that lack mayt become a problem at 3 metres focal length when every little extra bit of accuracy is now required. Up to 2 metres and no problem.

ASA are new but advanced design. Planewave have new mounts but again no track record. Paramount is a leader and has a new mini PME but again no track record with that one although likely to be a safe bet.

I agree with Jase. Other factors beyond accuracy and payload come into it. Depends on how sophisticated you want to go.

If you are portable you really want it to be able to setup easily, polar aligned accurately very quickly and simple to use. All the bells and whistles are potentially a set of things that can go wrong.

If I were imaging with a portable setup I would be inclined to polar align roughly with a quick drift alignment and then use T-point to get a 6-10 points model and then it tells you how much to adjust your mount and it would be very accurate for autoguided imaging. It would probably take about 30 minutes to get to that point. You can do this with any mount not just a PME. You just need to use the Sky and T-point. I would also want a nice portable pier as part of the package.


Greg.

[h0ughy (David)]

thanks for the advice Greg - no portable mount as it will be permanently in the observatory, as for price - the most i can get for the cheapest price but under 10K would be nice