MEADE 12 inch LX200 OTA.........Bintel reckons.....

[robz (Robert)]

Just a quick note guys:

My thanks to Shane Ross ''The Astro Guy'' for initially giving me the correct advice on the purchase of the EQ6 PRO mount, which I have managed somehow to lower it's(and his) true reputation and capabilities.

Shane is a great guy and very generous in his time and commitment to astronomy and I owe him an apology by spitting the dummy and requesting a refund................that was dumb!

I managed to convince a freind to bring down his 30 year old 10 inch steel tubed 7 foot newtonian monster. It tipped the scales with tube rings and dovetail at 19.43kg.
The EQ6 did not flinch in light winds when viewing................steady as a rock.................man, this mount really is a bargain for what you get

[sejanus (Gavin)]

gosh what a turnaround

good luck with it

[robz (Robert)]

Originally Posted by sejanus

gosh what a turnaround

good luck with it

The time I used the 8 inch with the EQ6 was with the original scope's tube rings and an adaptation to enable fixing to the dovetail bar.
Not the best or rigid method......by far.

That's where the problem with vibration was................not the mount as I had previously thought.

Should have woken up to that fact there and then as Shane had mentioned...............but I wasn't listening

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by robz

It tipped the scales with tube rings and dovetail at 19.43kg.
The EQ6 did not flinch in light winds when viewing................steady as a rock.................man, this mount really is a bargain for what you get

There you go, for reasons I dont quite get, sometimes, just sometimes overloading can actually improve things (as I found, sometimes)

[robz (Robert)]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm?
But...........was it in fact overloading it?...........that's the million dollar question.

I really don't think that the drive's true weight capacity will ever be determined as there are variations to published figures everywhere.

After all, it's not an AP1200 or Titan, Paramount, so it's presumed that it's low cost must mean low load capacity compared to the high end GEMS

I'll be brave and say that it seems that the EQ6 can hold a lot more than first anticipated and there may be some who refuse to accept that possibility in case it starts to tread in to heavy guage waters?

[marki]

Rob there is most definately a max weight for the EQ6 mount and Shane has already pointed it out.....the gears and clutches are rated at 25kg max. The problem with this figure is that it does not include the counter weights which must be considered part of the load on the gears and different scope configs exert different loads on the mount which will affect this value. This is where most the confusion stems from as manufacturers should clearly state max carrying capacity minus the counter weight needed . People like Bert (Avandonk) have removed the gears and replaced them with belts. If you check out his website you will see that he has half the iron produced by BHP last century hanging off the counterweight bar and carries enourmous loads on the mount. I imagine your mates 20kg newt would have taken it over its limit (how much counterweight did you have on it?) and although it carried it fine I think you will find the life of the mount will be reduced under these conditions. I think you will be okay with the 12" SCT but much better off with the 10" (more play money left for other bits as well).

Mark

[davewaldo]

Originally Posted by marki

Rob there is most definately a max weight for the EQ6 mount and Shane has already pointed it out.....the gears and clutches are rated at 25kg max. The problem with this figure is that it does not include the counter weights which must be considered part of the load on the gears and different scope configs exert different loads on the mount which will affect this value. This is where most the confusion stems from as manufacturers should clearly state max carrying capacity minus the counter weight needed .
Mark

Hi Mark,

Are you saying that the EQ6 only has a scope carrying capacity of 12.5kg + 12.5kg of counterweights?

I really don't think this is correct. I could not find any info on the net that says the 25kg (or 20kg) stated capacity includes counterweights. As far as I know its industry standard to list scope carrying capacity.

And besides.... nearly EVERYONE uses their eq6 with more than 12.5kg. If you do a search on this forum you'll find plenty using an eq6 with 24kg of counterweights alone (without modification).

Do you have any info to support your statement?

[Barrykgerdes]

I have looked at this thread a few times and there are two main points of view. What is the ultimate capacity of an EQ6 and what is the practical capacity.

While I have not used an EQ6 I have seen plenty of them and I would expect with careful arrangement I could get at least 50kgs on one and still have it work. However I would not like to put more than 10kgs on one and expect it to perform like a much heavier mount.

To use an analagy. I once towed a ton of sand in a trailer that was designed for a maximum load of 10cwt (springs bottomed out), with an Austin A30. Yes it could be done but it was quite a strain on everything.

If you have photography in mind don't overload an EQ6 with a 12" OTA. You will have difficulty in getting good stable results. If you must have a 12" OTA save up for something not less than a Titan. Otherwise get something much lighter

Barry

[robz (Robert)]

The thing is that people ARE using 12 inch OTA's on the EQ6 for photography.

Shane has the proof in actual photos that are awesome!.

I don't think for a minute that he has overloaded the mount. He has used the 12 incher on it for some time I believe and has not encountered any problems.

A point to remember : when I received the EQ6 pro MN recently, it came with two extra items that indicate an interesting point on the mount's capability - load wise.

Within the box were :
1. an extension shaft for the conterweights(formally an accessory?)
2. a large dovetail head(already installed on the mount) as well as the small standard one (packed with the other bits and peices).

Would this not mean that Skywatcher are now confident in knowing that the mount can easily handle LARGE scopes and have provided the attachments for it?..........................seems like it to me.

[TheAstroGuy (Shane Ross)]

I Had a very interesting incident last night.

Since i lost my Old vixen extension bar in a recent robbery i used to use
5x 5.2Kg counter weights to balance my set-up:
EQ6pro, 12" Newtonian, Equinox 80mm, Atik titan and Atik 11000 ccd's. (moonlite heavy duty focuser, Losmandy style 500mm dovetail bar and Parallax Rings).

I now have a second EQ6 mount for when i image with my wide field rig.
This one is the NEQ6 pro version with the extension bar which is a good 10cm shorter than my previous Vixen bar. I needed 6 x 5 Kgs counterweights to balance the mount efficiently and unbelievable to me the Mount was sturdier than before with MORE weight on it, god knows how but it was.

Having said that the 12" takes sooo much longer to balance and set-up than the refractors rig so 9 times out of ten i can't be bothered with the ordeal

[DJ N]

All quite interesting points. At the time I purchased my EQ6 Pro, I specifically remember that on the Skywatcher website, they indicated a 40lb carrying capacity for the EQ6 and 30lb for the HEQ5. However, these are now not listed!!

I suppose it comes down to a bit of common sense. I would be very surprised if there was not any "safety margin" in their figures. From an imaging perspective, I currently"load" up the mount to just under 14kg (which is a bit over the 2/3 rule), however, I have no issues guiding 20 and 25 minute exposures.

In summary, I still honestly believe it to be one of the best bang for buck mounts out there ( I still love mine!!), especially as an entry level mount.

[robz (Robert)]

Originally Posted by DJ N

All quite interesting points. At the time I purchased my EQ6 Pro, I specifically remember that on the Skywatcher website, they indicated a 40lb carrying capacity for the EQ6 and 30lb for the HEQ5. However, these are now not listed!!

I suppose it comes down to a bit of common sense. I would be very surprised if there was not any "safety margin" in their figures. From an imaging perspective, I currently"load" up the mount to just under 14kg (which is a bit over the 2/3 rule), however, I have no issues guiding 20 and 25 minute exposures.

In summary, I still honestly believe it to be one of the best bang for buck mounts out there ( I still love mine!!), especially as an entry level mount.

Hey Daniel, I wouldn't know about the EQ6 being an ''entry level'' mount?
Suerly the EQ5 would fit in to that catagory?

[DJ N]

Originally Posted by robz

Hey Daniel, I wouldn't know about the EQ6 being an ''entry level'' mount?
Suerly the EQ5 would fit in to that catagory?

I suppose I am more so referring to the brand, as say opposed to Losmandy, AP, Tak etc....

Cheers!

Daniel

[Alchemy (Clive)]

There seems to be a certain amount of conjecture regarding large scopes on not so large mounts for imaging.

As far as the original question of could a 12 inch scope be visually used on an eq6 .... Yes it can, and quite well so.

On to the imaging ( deep sky) there is obviously a differing opinion as to can it be used. Well let me use the analogy of a car race, could you use a standard Holden commodore at Bathurst in the race.... Well yes you could, but it's level of performance isn't really of a quality that would satisfy most racing drivers, and you would find if you went into a corner at the speed of the better cars, you would end up in the trees or a wall.
Likewise with the imaging, whilst yes you can mount the 12 inch on the eq6 the performance will be somewhat similar to the race analogy, you will be able to do 2 min exposures consistently maybee even 4 or 5 minute exposures if you are really lucky. But you will not get consistent 20 minute exposures even with a f 4.9 scope, much less at f11. So the question then becomes what will you settle for, if you are happy with 2-3 minute exposures .... Great, but all those who have progressed past that point have said consistently it's not an appropriate choice for such a setup, and have been imaging successfully for years. If there is any doubt as to the veracity of my claims then you can search through the forums for images, taken on such equipment.


.

[marki]

Originally Posted by davewaldo

Hi Mark,

Are you saying that the EQ6 only has a scope carrying capacity of 12.5kg + 12.5kg of counterweights?

I really don't think this is correct. I could not find any info on the net that says the 25kg (or 20kg) stated capacity includes counterweights. As far as I know its industry standard to list scope carrying capacity.

And besides.... nearly EVERYONE uses their eq6 with more than 12.5kg. If you do a search on this forum you'll find plenty using an eq6 with 24kg of counterweights alone (without modification).

Do you have any info to support your statement?

15kg sounds about right. You do not need to search the web, just check post 11 of this thread where Shane ( a skywatcher dealer) states 25kg as the max loading, bintel say 20kg. Top brand mounts will give you the max carrying capacity excluding counter weights (always pointed out), synta give nought so I must assume their limit includes the counter weights. If you want to overload your mount go for it but you will reduce its life span. My SXD is rated at 15kg scope carrying capacity @ 24.5 cm from the fulcrum excluding counter weights. I never carry more then 8kg of scopes and camera's etc with 3.7kg of counter weight. As always the choice is yours.

Mark

[davewaldo]

Originally Posted by marki

15kg sounds about right. You do not need to search the web, just check post 11 of this thread where Shane ( a skywatcher dealer) states 25kg as the max loading, bintel say 20kg. Top brand mounts will give you the max carrying capacity excluding counter weights (always pointed out), synta give nought so I must assume their limit includes the counter weights. If you want to overload your mount go for it but you will reduce its life span. My SXD is rated at 15kg scope carrying capacity @ 24.5 cm from the fulcrum excluding counter weights. I never carry more then 8kg of scopes and camera's etc with 3.7kg of counter weight. As always the choice is yours.

Mark

Thanks Mark, so basically your just assuming that its 25kg total weight. Also in post #11 Shane doesn't actually say that its 25kg including counterweights or otherwise. I only take issue to your earlier post when you state that 25kg is the combined weight as if its a fact that you know of, I see this misleading people with your opinion/assumption presented as a fact.

I think the only fact we have realised in this thread is that no-one knows what the safe limit actually is for this scope. Skywatcher has never really told us either way. (Remember we're not talking imaging specifically in this thread). Some people will be conservative others go all out.

You are right that it is up to individuals how they wish to load their mount, but its also helpful to go by other individuals experience with this mount and its history.

Until Skywatcher come out and tell us its scope carrying capacity we can only assume either way....

[robz (Robert)]

Originally Posted by davewaldo

Thanks Mark, so basically your just assuming that its 25kg total weight. Also in post #11 Shane doesn't actually say that its 25kg including counterweights or otherwise. I only take issue to your earlier post when you state that 25kg is the combined weight as if its a fact that you know of, I see this misleading people with your opinion/assumption presented as a fact.

I think the only fact we have realised in this thread is that no-one knows what the safe limit actually is for this scope. Skywatcher has never really told us either way. (Remember we're not talking imaging specifically in this thread). Some people will be conservative others go all out.

You are right that it is up to individuals how they wish to load their mount, but its also helpful to go by other individuals experience with this mount and its history.

Until Skywatcher come out and tell us its scope carrying capacity we can only assume either way....

Whichever way you look at it, a 12 inch scope CAN be mounted on it, and with care and appropriate know how, astrophotography can be very effectively achieved.

Having said that, I wouldn't put a C8 and a 120 Megrez on the same rig .............or would I ?

[robz (Robert)]

A new thread has started on this forum : EQ6 maximum load

There are some intersting posts.....especially the most recent one : when he took the mount apart, it had car bearings and as he states - ''obviously these are good for a lot more than 40kg''.

Seems to make sense to me : the Chinese decide to make a large mount at a competitive price compared to all the ''big brand names''. So, they think to themselves - why not use what is commonly available to reduce R&D and manufacturing costs :car bearings, simple and easy, commonly available, chuck a casing around it, throw some available electronics in to it and ''Bob's your uncle''............

[Visionoz (Bill)]

AFAICR, when Skywatcher introduced the NEQ6 Pro with the wider saddles to take the wider dovetails they did say that it was meant to be for their 12" Newtonian and one dealer has it on the website categorically with those statements; see here

I might be OT and unsure if this model has now replaced or is offered alongside the EQ6 Pro since I did see a new one delivered to a mate recently has the extension counterweight bar (makes sense if you want add more weights thus increasing the fulcrum point further out requires less weights than a shorter bar) and the extra Vixen saddle besides the bigger D-saddle like Rob mentioned

FWIW, I have both the older model EQ6 Pro (have loaded it with a 12" FlexDob, visual only; a bit scary but works at its limits I think) and a Losmandy G11 and they each serve my specific needs; albeit I must say that using the G11 is a much less strenuous effort with smoother adjustments/settings - suppose it is horses for courses

My 2cents worth!!
HTH
Cheers
Bill

[robz (Robert)]

Good post Bill.

''Will take payloads up to 25kg'' eh?......presuming that ''payload'' is actually referring to a ''payload'' (OTA).
That's a big leap from the 16kg weight of the Meade 12 inch LX200 ACF OTA ??