Is spelling old fashioned?

[marki]

Originally Posted by Robh

You know we live in a democratic society. The masses have decided that education is boring and essentially irrelevant. So after a generation or two, they've decided to dumb things down a bit and make it easier for everyone. Now, it doesn't matter if there is nothing to get excited about in education. The masses have an unlimited supply of entertainment to fill their lives and keep them happy. As a consequence, the young aspire to become entertainers, movie or rock stars or professional sportsmen, who, of course, earn millions of dollars every year. Our esteemed leaders are quite happy with this status quo as the masses don't wish to waste their time thinking about important policies and are keen to leave all the "boring" decisions to the experts.

Rob.

You hit the nail on the head Rob. Imagine if the masses where well educated, the politicians would have to do their jobs properly.

Mark

[AndrewJ]

I reckon everyone needs to reread Asimovs Foundation trilogy
( of seven ???? )
IMHO it was an exceedingly prescient view of humanity.
We are just starting to enter the age of the priests.
The lack of knowledge on how things operate ( including language )
means those who dont understand eventually become slaves to those that do.

Andrew

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

Has anyone considered the unpalatable option, the reason why kids are struggling at school is that the human race is becoming dumber and dumber.

Steven

You could be right, Steven, but I don't think so. The reason why education has gone down the drain is because our Western societies have become fat, lazy, ignorant and stupid. We take no responsibility for own own lives, the education of our children (or anything else, for that matter) and just seem to feed off this all encompassing need to be entertained and sated immediately...without question. Just like all the other civilisations before it, our present society here in the West is going down hill fast and no one is doing a thing about it. Pollies don't care...makes it easier for them to lord it over everyone if they're all a mob of idiots with attention spans of gnats. What they fail to realise is when societies go out the window, they're usually the ones to suffer the most. They never learn from history, mainly because they can't get their heads extricated from their rear ends long enough to smell the fresh air.

[marki]

Don't forget we have also had a very long period of strong economical growth and abundant jobs for all. When I try to get kids to realise the importance of education the answer is usually pffftt, my dad left school when he was 14 - 16 and we live in a big house with a pool, have 3 squillion cars, a boat ........ so why should I bother. As short sighted as it may seem they are right for the here and now. This has also led to totally egocentric behaviour in which any thought of national unity or the betterment of the collective are not even considered. Like the Romans before us, we are decaying into a spent force.

Mark

[sjastro]

Although my comment was partly tongue in cheek it was primarily motivated by an article I read a few years ago on the entrance exam for potential commissioned officers in the US military during the early 20th century.

The IQ based test produced a suitable quota of candidates for training as officers.

The US military noted as successive generations took the test there was a progressive decline in the number of suitable candidates. By todays standards only a small percentage would progress compared to the original quota.

And remember anyone taking the test was sufficiently motivated......

Steven

[matt]

Originally Posted by renormalised

One way to fix that, Mark (and make the idiots sit up and take notice). Refuse to teach, point blank, and state your reasons why. Make a huge hullabaloo about it and spread it as far and wide as you can. Get it in the national media. Show up the academics in their little ivory towers and the (equally ignorant) politicians who implement the garbage in legislation. Get everyone who's concerned about the state of our education system to support the drive to get back to educating our kids properly and stop filling their heads with the nonsense they promulgate these days.

You'd have me on your side, for starters.

It'd make all the news bulletins for which I have control and broadcast.

Enough's enough.

The problem is, are you likely to go as far as to suggest that there are a lot of teachers currently in the system who might find themselves 'moved along' due to their lack of ability and knowledge?

A lot of these sub-standard teachers got in through the back door when standards and entry marks were dropped disastrously low to boost teachers ranks back in the early to mid 80s.

Do we just shuffle the pieces around the board or address this core issue?

[pmrid (Peter)]

I lived in Cunnamulla many moons ago (SW Qld) where the locala paper came out weekely and was nicknamed "The 3-minute silence" because it wasd delivered to the local RSL first on Wednesday afternoon at 6.00 p.m. where all assembled read in from cover to cover in 3 minutes.

But to the point of this thread, the english teacher at the locala school used to set the children the task for homework, of correcting the spelling and grammar in the latest edition of the 3-Minute Silence. It was that bad.

Peter

[matt]

Gee...I'm shocked that the local paper at Cunnamulla would be something of a disappointment. Who would have thought!!!

A lot of those local (small) newspapers in regional towns are owned/run/put together by people like local councillors or business people without a skerrick of journalism or layout training, and a team of volunteers or part-timers.

Still...that's what a Citizen's Gazette is all about. Getting and having a go

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by matt

You'd have me on your side, for starters.

It'd make all the news bulletins for which I have control and broadcast.

Enough's enough.

The problem is, are you likely to go as far as to suggest that there are a lot of teachers currently in the system who might find themselves 'moved along' due to their lack of ability and knowledge?

A lot of these sub-standard teachers got in through the back door when standards and entry marks were dropped disastrously low to boost teachers ranks back in the early to mid 80s.

Do we just shuffle the pieces around the board or address this core issue?

That's great to hear that someone in the media actually cares enough to make it known that we're going downhill in terms of our standards of education

Those sub standard teachers...send those that want to learn back to school themselves, the rest...sack. They're not worth keeping on and they're only doing a disservice to our kids. However, I would be very selective about who I kept and those I sacked. I'd say only 5-10% are worth keeping.

[matt]

Originally Posted by renormalised

That's great to hear that someone in the media actually cares enough to make it known that we're going downhill in terms of our standards of education

Those sub standard teachers...send those that want to learn back to school themselves, the rest...sack. They're not worth keeping on and they're only doing a disservice to our kids. However, I would be very selective about who I kept and those I sacked. I'd say only 5-10% are worth keeping.

My attitude is similar to yours.

As harsh as it sounds, I'd go through our teaching stocks with a big broom. Those who are good enough will be retained, the rest given an option to get up to scratch or move on.

In the meantime the pendulum needs to swing back. We need to make the rewards far greater and a career as an educator far more attractive to the right people. Make the teaching profession the respected and highly remunerated profession it once was.

But...the demands will be proportionally higher. You'll need to score a high mark at high school to study teaching. You'll need excellent marks to graduate and become a teacher. The two go hand in hand.

We should never have 'dumbed down' the profession of teaching.

That probably sounds harsh, but it's only going to be a radical approach to the current problem which will solve such endemic failure.

[renormalised (Carl)]

This is my philosophy...if you're going to be teaching a subject, then you should be proficient and have experience in that subject. So, if you're going to teach science, for example, then you should be a physicist, chemist, biologist, geologist etc etc. How can you teach a subject when the only knowledge and experience you've got consists of 3 or 4 semesters of study at Uni. You can't...you barely know enough to cover the subject yourself let alone be able to pass what knowledge you have onto others!!!. You should, at least, have a degree in the field you want to teach, preferably post graduate qualifications and some experience in your field if possible. But, at the very least, a degree. Not a BEd with a smattering of study in your field of choice. That's a complete and utter waste of time. Teachers should have a BSc or BA or BBus or LLB etc, then do a course of about a year or so long to get the teaching qualifications...like a diploma or post grad BEd. That way, we might actually get teachers that know their subjects.

[matt]

Indeed, Carl.

Although I'm not so sure you need individuals of such high training and qualification to teach littlies!!!

[renormalised (Carl)]

In the meantime the pendulum needs to swing back. We need to make the rewards far greater and a career as an educator far more attractive to the right people. Make the teaching profession the respected and highly remunerated profession it once was.

I totally agree with you, 200%. Teachers should be one of the most highly paid professions, yet they get paid a pittance. No wonder most don't give a stuff about their jobs. Or, why many top quality graduates aren't drawn to the job. I think if you made the incentives to become a teacher attractive enough, you'd get quite a few people wanting to pass on their knowledge to the kids.

It should also be the same for University academics...they're not exactly all that well off themselves, or compensated to the level that they should be.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by matt

Indeed, Carl.

Although I'm not so sure you need individuals of such high training and qualification to teach littlies!!!

I was speaking more from a perspective of high school education. Although, I believe that the littlies should also have top quality teachers as well. It's the most important time of their lives, where all their later habits of learning are formed. It's like the old Jewish proverb..."give me the boy and I'll have the man". Catch them early in their education, and you'll develop lifelong learners. People who'll actually be well educated and functioning members of society.

[matt]

Originally Posted by renormalised

I believe that the littlies should also have top quality teachers as well. It's the most important time of their lives, where all their later habits of learning are formed.

Indeed. And I certainly was not suggesting anything short of excellent teachers for young students.

It's is, as you say, a crucial time in their lives to learn either good or bad habits.

I believe teachers of littlies require certain other intangible but equally important qualities.

Apart form possessing academic prowess, they need to have the ability to help 'socialise' little people and endorse the lessons of life that their parents are (hopefully) instilling at home. They need to encourage and nurture, inspire and support...but also occasionally chastise and correct.

A very different creature...is our early childhood teacher, but very important in the grand scheme of things and we should be a lot more selective than we currently are, when it comes to who we choose to shape the young minds of future generations.

[kinetic (Steve)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

I believe that the littlies should also have top quality teachers as well. It's the most important time of their lives, where all their later habits of learning are formed.

Here is an anecdote that might give you some food for thought.
Maybe not.....might get lost in the noise...

When my daughter was in pre-school she started to develop the
ability to write her own name.
Apparently that is one of the 'milestones' of completing 'Kindy'
Spell and write your own name and tie your shoelaces.

Well it seemed to come to her in just a few days....one day
she couldn't write it, next day she could do it straight off the bat.

But it was all backwards!. Completely and perfectly formed letters,
including a capital at the start, but backwards!
This freaked mum and dad out a bit. We thought we had a child
from the Exorcist movie

So we carefully and quietly told her how to write it forwards.
She then did it perfectly forwards, straight off. She could, back then,
actually write it just as clearly with both hands as well.

For a few weeks this went to and fro, from writing it forwards one
day, to writing it backwards another (by accident).

A teacher then told us that this is very common in pre-schoolers.

From my way of thinking this implies to me that we put blinkers
on kids at this crucial stage and disable or lock out a huge potential
of them perceiving their world. Just imagine what else a kid could
possibly do if this ability was nurtured instead of cut off.

Steve

[matt]

Originally Posted by kinetic

Here is an anecdote that might give you some food for thought.
Maybe not.....might get lost in the noise...

When my daughter was in pre-school she started to develop the
ability to write her own name.
Apparently that is one of the 'milestones' of completing 'Kindy'
Spell and write your own name and tie your shoelaces.

Well it seemed to come to her in just a few days....one day
she couldn't write it, next day she could do it straight off the bat.

But it was all backwards!. Completely and perfectly formed letters,
including a capital at the start, but backwards!
This freaked mum and dad out a bit. We thought we had a child
from the Exhorcist movie

So we carefully and quietly told her how to write it forwards.
She then did it perfectly forwards, straight off. She could, back then,
actually write it just as clearly with both hands as well.

For a few weeks this went to and fro, from writing it forwards one
day, to writing it backwards another (by accident).

A teacher then told us that this is very common in pre-schoolers.

From my way of thinking this implies to me that we put blinkers
on kids at this crucial stage and disable or lock out a huge potential
of them perceiving their world. Just imagine what else a kid could
possibly do if this ability was nurtured instead of cut off.

Steve

Indeed food for thought, Steve.

Nurturing is such a big thing for kids.

I guess there's a fine line, though, eh?

Whilst none of us likes the idea of stomping all over individual creativity and those with latent 'special' gifts, there still needs to be a commitment to offering a framework in which people can grow and express themselves.

The basics still need to apply, and kids still need to learn their ABCs and times tables etc... otherwise it's all just a bit random.

The trick is how we get them to develop along parallel lines. That is, getting across all the stuff they 'need' to learn, while still developing or retaining their 'special' side.

Cheers

[marki]

Originally Posted by matt

My attitude is similar to yours.

As harsh as it sounds, I'd go through our teaching stocks with a big broom. Those who are good enough will be retained, the rest given an option to get up to scratch or move on.

I am all for that as long as I can go through your profession and clean out who ever fails to meet my standards as well. Fact is most folks having attended school think they know something about education when in reallity they couldn't find their bums with a map, compass and GPS. Most teachers have very high IQ's for what it's worth (bugger all) and know their area's well. The problem is the loss of control over what they are allowed to teach. Business and other interest groups have the majority say over what your children are taught and to not follow orders so to speak means loss of funding..... Educators can scream as much as they want but until parents and other interest groups come on board nothing will get done. The governments see schools as a cheap day care centre and until this attitude is forced to change your children will suffer.

Another problem is that most parents don't give a toss. All education should be done at school. Sorry to burst that bubble but you as parents are the primary educators of your children. Spend some time teaching them to read and write before they go to school. Educate your selves so you can help them as they learn. We are in classes with up to 32 kids. We cannot even spend 2 minutes per hour with your child. Sobbering thoughts indeed but that is the nature of the beast.

Mark

[FredSnerd (Claude)]

Thank God it will be the young and not the old who will take us into the future. I suppose it makes perfect sense really. All those years have fashioned our brain in a certain way and re arranging it to see and deal with the new challenges of the day just gets progressively harder and harder.

[matt]

Originally Posted by marki

I am all for that as long as I can go through your profession and clean out who ever fails to meet my standards as well.

Not a problem. Sounds good to me. Let's do the same in all professions.

A topic for another thread, perhaps?

But while we're discussing spelling and those responsible for teaching of said topic...ie teachers....let's stick to discussing them for now, eh?

And let's make this about a set of established, commonly accepted standards... not "my standards".

Cheers.