Latest economic fix

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by Paul Hatchman

This is a popular criticism, but I think it misses the mark.

Consider the case of negative growth, which leads to deflation.

In a deflation environment, it makes no sense to spend your money today because it will be worth more tomorrow as assets deflate and you can afford to buy more of them.

Owning you home would be pointless, because it would be worth less and less each day.

Banks would not lend to you because they would get no return on investment due to low interest rates. Any assets you purchase will be worth less tomorrow, and they can't get their money back if you default.

There is no point making any risky investments, because you become richer simply by doing nothing.

In this environment, there is no investment, no innovation or incentives, because doing nothing with your money is the smart option.

Our whole economic system is built around growth and without it, society will collapse. Recessions and depressions are not fun times for this very reason.

So unless you can come up with another system to encourage investment without growth, I'm afraid growth is the only answer to the question.

Cheers.

While we have vast inequalities within and beween countries and while populations are growing then I dont know of any other solution except to aim for more growth.

Cheers
Paul

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by acropolite

Growth is the problem to the answer, while ever our dinosaur governments think we can have continuous (=infinite) growth the boom bust cycles will continue and our environment both physical and financial will suffer.

No , actually economies based on making crap that is immediately obsolete as soon as you buy it and not made to last (but to lowest possible cost) and consumerism (USA and also Australian style) is the problem .... and idiot economists , bankers and politicians who can't see past the ends of their noses and are hung up on a foolish belief that the free market will solve all the world's woes ....

Greed is also not helping.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by nightstalker

Bass Strait is way to close to land bill a few would probably make land with a vision.. best dump the lot down in the Southern ocean

A lot of them are pretty fat - so they wont drown or sink very easily in salt water - best to just shoot them , it's cheaper and more certain to get the desired effect.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Zuts

While we have vast inequalities within and beween countries and while populations are growing then I dont know of any other solution except to aim for more growth.

Cheers
Paul

Redistribution of wealth is the way to go , and convince people to make do with what they have - especially in affluent nations - rather than always wanting the latest and newest and most up to date of everything , and bigger houses than they really need .

If all Indians and Chinese decide they want to live like Americans and Australians do we are all collectively going to be in deep poo.

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Redistribution of wealth is the way to go , and convince people to make do with what they have - especially in affluent nations - rather than always wanting the latest and newest and most up to date of everything , and bigger houses than they really need .

If all Indians and Chinese decide they want to live like Americans and Australians do we are all collectively going to be in deep poo.

No problems, and you can be the first to give back your EOS 40D, after all you dont really need it.........

[Bassnut (Fred)]

How come Im always out of the Free-money-hand-out band, is it always only lazy no-hopers that get the freebies?

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

How come Im always out of the Free-money-hand-out band, is it always only lazy no-hopers that get the freebies?

I'd like some of tjat free money too - .... never seems to come to me either ....

what I have I worked damb hard to get hold off , no one ever gave me "easy money".

Mine you - I don't resent pensioners getting a bit extra help like they are right now - I know plenty of them and they are hardly living it up , nor are the huge majority of dole reciprients (and I believe they missed out on the stimulous package - one again - someone explain why they any the less needy or deserving of help then pensioners).

I am also all for redistribution of wealth and for government owning and running crucial industries too - like power generation , hospitals , telecoms , all roads , all water corps , etc .

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Zuts

No problems, and you can be the first to give back your EOS 40D, after all you dont really need it.........

I'm hardly wealthy , not by a long shot , and probably will never be , my wife and I live very modestly.

[space oddity]

The business of chucking money around will simply cause inflation. Sure, it will get people out and spending, but the jobs will not be real jobs, they will be short term and be on produce not made in Australia(no value added), raising our foreign debt even further . The government is too stupid to realise that long term, you can only consume what you produce and should be trying to have stimulus on the supply side of the equation, which does produce real long term jobs. Perhaps chairman Rudd's plan is to sell Australia to China to pay for all the cheap garbage we buy from them.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Redistribution of wealth is the way to go , and convince people to make do with what they have

Communist forces are underfoot in IceInSpace....

[GrahamL]

This guys been doing his bit towards wealth redistribution
http://www.madoff.com/dis/display.as...1&home=1#owner
made a decent fist of it to
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle5337735.ece

[Babalyon 5]

Originally Posted by nightstalker

This guys been doing his bit towards wealth redistribution
http://www.madoff.com/dis/display.as...1&home=1#owner
made a decent fist of it to
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle5337735.ece

So, I don't get it?? The second article indicates that in some way, this person is responsible for the financial mess the world is in right now, is that right?

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Lee

Communist forces are underfoot in IceInSpace....

Umm .... card carrying socialist .....and it's a good thing this aint the USA , over there calling someone a commie is a mortal insult , communism was actually a good idea , too bad it was corrupted in it's application by power hungry dictators.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Babalyon 5

So, I don't get it?? The second article indicates that in some way, this person is responsible for the financial mess the world is in right now, is that right?

Bernard Madoff’s probably the worse crook in history, and he probably contributed the USA financial stuffup. ($50,000,000,000 !!! gotta laugh at the ultra rich being taken in by his ponzy scheme .... my heart bleeds for them .... not.)

[xelasnave]

We need a two party political system administering a communist system... you can earn what you like, buy what you like but the accumulation of capital remains with the state.... and if the Governments keep bailing out everyone and taking ownership, rather than loans, thats what we may well end up with.
The market system works fairly well but in its raw form really puts education, health and social help in the charity box.

It breeds class hatred a condition that most folk do not know even exists.

We are all greedy and think that we dont want to work to save another but we can fail to see the massive abuse of the market system... extremely wasteful and generally inequitable...

A full communist system has problems and experience tells us it is in under supply rather than over supply however that condition may have been prompted due to other reasons (culture the condition of the country to start with)..

Anyways I have not seen any choppers throwing money out yet and in an effort to tolerate the current system will wait to see if that approach works....

alex

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

We need a two party political system administering a communist system... you can earn what you like, buy what you like but the accumulation of capital remains with the state.... and if the Governments keep bailing out everyone and taking ownership, rather than loans, thats what we may well end up with.
The market system works fairly well but in its raw form really puts education, health and social help in the charity box.

It breeds class hatred a condition that most folk do not know even exists.

We are all greedy and think that we dont want to work to save another but we can fail to see the massive abuse of the market system... extremely wasteful and generally inequitable...

A full communist system has problems and experience tells us it is in under supply rather than over supply however that condition may have been prompted due to other reasons (culture the condition of the country to start with)..

Anyways I have not seen any choppers throwing money out yet and in an effort to tolerate the current system will wait to see if that approach works....

alex

The chopper bypassed my place too.... bummer ....

Let me get it straight - the bailouts make it so the federal governments take all the risk , and the failed businesses and industries keep all the profits ..... why are they pussy footing about ? just nationalise these companies and industries if they are so crucial to the national economies and have them owned 100% by the people (government) and throw the boards who lead these companies and industries into gaol (definitely don't let them stay on or walk away with their monster golden paracutes - HOLD THE *******S RESPONSIBLE and MAKE THEM PAY BIG TIME)_.

[toyos]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Redistribution of wealth is the way to go , and convince people to make do with what they have - especially in affluent nations - rather than always wanting the latest and newest and most up to date of everything , and bigger houses than they really need .

Do you have a big photo of Mao Tse-Dong put up high in your living room? Just because you can't afford it, it doesn't mean that others shouldn't enjoy the finer things in life.

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

If all Indians and Chinese decide they want to live like Americans and Australians do we are all collectively going to be in deep poo.

If?? They already do, since ages ago, and they're going fast.......
China is becoming many nations' largest export markets including Australia (2nd to Japan at the moment). Have you been anywhere else other than Gateshead and Newcastle?

[xelasnave]

Well we had a few smart folk who having done economics at uni came out needing to show they knew more than those who went before them...and so as their influence grew it became popular to "lease" rather than buy...the maths proved this of course..so what does the Government now own...little in the nations capital it seems because it was all sold and leased back...
I think there is even a move to have prisons privately owned .... that may be very sound economically but it seems that it benefits those who need more places to leave their capital.

How can you control folk with buckets of cash when in truth "every man has his price"...everything can be bought you see and there is ample proof of that proposition lets face it.

alex

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by toyos

Do you have a big photo of Mao Tse-Dong put up high in your living room? Just because you can't afford it, it doesn't mean that others shouldn't enjoy the finer things in life.

no ..sorry to disappoint you Commrade Toyos , only some pictures of the family .. but since you suggested I might , I suppose you've an alter and do daily devotions to one of Maggie Thatcher or Ronald Reagon or Johnny Howard or of Bull Dust Bush on yours.

If?? They already do, since ages ago, and they're going fast.......
China is becoming many nation's largest export markets including Australia (2nd to Japan at the moment). Have you been anywhere else other than Gateshead and Newcastle?

Only a small part of these countries populations are currently participating , you really need to keep up with real current affairs programs like those on Aunti and SBS rather than those on Nine and Seven .

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

. and if the Governments keep bailing out everyone and taking ownership, rather than loans, thats what we may well end up with.

Now theres a thought

Any business or institution considered to be "too big to be allowed to fail" should be owned by the state. Enough of this privatise the gains and socialise the losses crapola.