Wall Street can you fix it?

[Archy (George)]

ian, you say:
"5 year and 10 year moving averages are the applicable trending instrument here.

See for yourself. The trend since the 70s is upward ... proves nothing in a global context."

Now who's cherry picking!
Put a trend line through the whole data not just post 70's. The trend is down. If you want to point to the post 1970's data, fine: then explain the 1890 to 1970 decrease in temperature.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Archy

ian, you say:
"5 year and 10 year moving averages are the applicable trending instrument here.

See for yourself. The trend since the 70s is upward ... proves nothing in a global context."

Now who's cherry picking!
Put a trend line through the whole data not just post 70's. The trend is down. If you want to point to the post 1970's data, fine: then explain the 1890 to 1970 decrease in temperature.

Still waiting on you post data for more than widely separated location .

One location's data PROVES DIDDLEYSQUAT wrt a global trend one way or another , why do you find that hard to grasp ?

[qld]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Still waiting on you post data for more than widely separated location .

One location's data PROVES DIDDLEYSQUAT wrt a global trend one way or another , why do you find that hard to grasp ?

hi fellow debaters,what happened to all the sceptics on the new proposed Kangaroo diet....im still waiting for recipes from you, or are recipes only handed out by the high priest(you got it ,ol Ross).But as the recently retired

N.S.W. treasurer said in the upper house recently(Costa) in a debate about Kangaroo culling "what about the wombats"........they have a smaller carbon footprint as they sequestrate their emissions underground.So if any of you cant cope with roo burgers...try wombat steak sandwiches they
have been on the indigeneous menu for at least 60000.years.After the crash on wall street ,and when not one of your brothers can spare a dime for you to eat,the prophet Guarnut prophesy about eating roo just might come true......i just looove true believers.

[Archy (George)]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Still waiting on you post data for more than widely separated location .

One location's data PROVES DIDDLEYSQUAT wrt a global trend one way or another, why do you find that hard to grasp ?

" DIDDLEYSQUAT" A fine scientific term. One unexplained data point can throw out a whole hypothesis.
This forum does not seem capable of accepting Excel graphs: If it could or if you can tell me how, I will post several excel charts: some analysing data from Siberia, others from Antarctica which show down trends or insignificant temperature rises.
In the meantime go to the Goddard site, Temperature records download records for rural sites and do your own analysis. Do not quote to me temperature rises for cities as what you would be pointing out is the microclimate change that results from changing farm or forest into concrete, asphalt or tiles.
Again, please explain what happened at Punta Arenas between 1904 to 1970, surely you are not suggesting that CO2 levels went down.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Archy

" DIDDLEYSQUAT" A fine scientific term. One unexplained data point can throw out a whole hypothesis.
This forum does not seem capable of accepting Excel graphs: If it could or if you can tell me how, I will post several excel charts: some analysing data from Siberia, others from Antarctica which show down trends or insignificant temperature rises.
In the meantime go to the Goddard site, Temperature records download records for rural sites and do your own analysis. Do not quote to me temperature rises for cities as what you would be pointing out is the microclimate change that results from changing farm or forest into concrete, asphalt or tiles.
Again, please explain what happened at Punta Arenas between 1904 to 1970, surely you are not suggesting that CO2 levels went down.

Punta Arenas 1904-1970 temps , you tell us.

Upload them as part of a xls spreadsheet or pasted to a document. Knock your self out ....

[Archy (George)]

Ian:
Rise to the challenge: explain why temperatures dropped , because if you can't, then you haven't got a valid explanation for why it rose. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a valid argument.

[space oddity]

Getting back to the original thread. Greed and big egos are a large cause of the credit problem. Lending institutions did not want to be seen to be losing market share (and thus bruising of their egos) so they gave loans to people who simply should not be given loans - realistically, we cannot all have the same lifestyles, irrespective of how hard we work or personal talents. A number of replies are touting the socialist/ communist line. True, capitalism is a flawed system , but it beats the hell out of the other systems out there. Socialism and communism simply do not work. Would you like to live under the Chineese communist party rule, where basically the whole population are the slaves of the Party? Or perhaps under Stalinism, where comrade Josef made slaves of any group he so desired or liquidated them? Maybe East Germany - a "democratic republic" , paranoid in its thinking ? Welfare states (that includes Australia) become lazy and inefficient - why work hard - others can work hard for me! Despite my non socialist leanings, I do not support a US bailout - where does it all end- it will wind up being that those banks that collapse first(who deserve to go belly up) will get propped up and the more efficient, perhaps less greedy ones will miss out and go under because there is not enough in US treasury to prop up all of them. It could wind up that the less efficient banking institutions survive at the cost of the more efficient ones. A bit like our crazy society which funds dole bludgers to have kids whilst the middle classes cannot afford to have kids because they are paying for the dole bludgers to have kids. On the sub thread of global climate change and the role humans play - no one wants to admit the root cause - TOO MANY HUMANS.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Archy

Ian:
Rise to the challenge: explain why temperatures dropped , because if you can't, then you haven't got a valid explanation for why it rose. Post hoc ergo propter hoc is not a valid argument.

You are the one claiming and extrapolating from Punta Arenas data a global cooling , and you want me to explain the temperatures in Punta Arenas . You made the claim of a cooling trend , so you explain it.

[xstream (John)]

Gentleman please!

Back to the original thread, take it to a new thread if you wish to continue.

Thank you.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by xstream

Gentleman please!

Back to the original thread, take it to a new thread if you wish to continue.

Thank you.

Just heard on SBS on the American news program that the House has passed the Bailout bill and Bush Jr immediately signed it ....

Wonder what the bill really entails , as if it will much to save the USA's economy , just buying a little time ....

So I guess the USA is now a socialist state , maybe it should be renamed the United Socialist States of America ....

[Archy (George)]

[quote=Ian Robinson;369765]You are the one claiming and extrapolating from Punta Arenas data a global cooling , and you want me to explain the temperatures in Punta Arenas . You made the claim of a cooling trend , so you explain it.

The moderator has asked to move the discussion to a new thread: how does one do so. Ian don't misrepresent me What I said was you claim global warming, you have to explain Punta Arenas and other rural sites that show local cooling.

[Archy (George)]

Originally Posted by qld

i think Archy has pushed the correct button here.........i wonder why it so that we never hear from the Russians on these issues and why we have a poker face response from the Chinese, ....... their politics seem to be closely alinged with the views of those members expressed in these threads with the exception of Archy and me ofcourse.....but as an old sceptic. i never give a commie an even break cause he wont either !

Qld : I found this reference to the Russians:
Statement of Prof. Zbigniew Jaworowski
Chairman, Scientific Council of Central Laboratory for Radiological Protection
Warsaw, Poland
Climate Change: Incorrect information on pre-industrial CO2 March 19, 2004 "The basis of most of the IPCC conclusions on anthropogenic causes and on projections of climatic change is the assumption of low level of CO2 in the pre-industrial atmosphere. This assumption, based on glaciological studies, is false. Therefore IPCC projections should not be used for national and global economic planning. The climatically inefficient and economically disastrous Kyoto Protocol, based on IPCC projections, was correctly defined by President George W. Bush as “fatally flawed”. This criticism was recently followed by the President of Russia Vladimir V. Putin. I hope that their rational views might save the world from enormous damage that could be induced by implementing recommendations based on distorted science".

[xelasnave]

Well up in the hills it seems to be on another planet for me... happy that I have little relience on the outside world..got water and my own electricity and a humble diet sees me fine... I saw this coming and have said so for some time and prepared for it... still why the rob peter to pay paul mentality is allowed to continue and folk are still investing in these banks who are not really doing the right thing by their customers and share holders, is beyond reason..
Executive pay outs and outrageous sarleries must go..they wont however nothing will change..this is not the first time we have had this stupid prime loans thing..who remembers the savings and loan crisis..and in Australia the home fund crisis...fix it and gaol some folk please.

alex