Wot tha?????.....CRASH!!!

[1ponders] (Paul) · #1 07-05-2008, 08:46 PM

Ok this one is out there in the gaps in the great unknown of my computer knowledge.

Twice this week my laptop has shutdown. And I don't mean wound down and turned off, I mean, one second I'm working and the next the screen is black and the machine has stopped. No BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) just nadda, nothing, zip.

The first time I just restarted and np, it booted up and kept going it's merry way. This time it started up, loaded everything in windows that normally loads up and then came up with a fatal exception message and required to be shut down. This time it goes through the file check process at the start. Of course this all happens while I'm trying to autoguide through a shot

.

The only thing I can put it down to is my GPUSB adapter. It locked up the other night (after making sure it had engaged the dec correction first and left the correction running) and this error seemed to indicate a USB problem.

I've been running the GPUSB through a hub along with my Webcam usb connection. Has anyone else had this issue or should I just run the GPUSB straight through a USB port on my laptop.

Or am I right off the rails and it's probably something else? BTW I'm running XP (service pack 2)

Gama · #2 07-05-2008, 08:50 PM

If the USB port is drawing to much current, it will think theres a short and shut the computer OFF. My sony VAIO did it, so i ran an external powered hub.

Theo

netwolf · #3 07-05-2008, 09:03 PM

Is the system overheating? Could be dust in the fan or exhaust. IS the fan running full time?

Try pressing F8 before windows starts and use the "Last known good configuratio" option. If that also BSOD's then try F8 and Safe mode and go back to a restore point.

Regards
Fahim

[1ponders] (Paul) · #4 07-05-2008, 09:09 PM

Thanks for the quick reply guys.

Theo, the hub I was connected to is externally powered so current draw shouldn't be a problem.

Fahim, the fan does runn fairly often, but it's about 6 deg atm so I'm thinking it should be cool enough, mind you the fan's been getting pretty noisey over the past few months.

acropolite (Phil) · #5 07-05-2008, 09:42 PM

Paul, I had a laptop doing exactly the same, turned out to be a dry joint in the charger socket, sometimes the power led was lit, others it was out, might be worth checking to make sure the plugpack is charging. Another fault I've seen is the plugpack wiring goes s/c inside the insulation, quite common where the connecting cable is wound around the plugpack repeatedly for storage or transport.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #6 07-05-2008, 09:48 PM

I dont think its the charger Phil. My battery only lasts for about 20 min at the best of times and there is no indiator in the task bar showing the battery is running down. Mind you the AC cable is pretty kinky

. While it's not been wrapped around my elbow, you know what an extension lead looks like after a while of doing that. That is what my ac lead looks like.

netwolf · #7 07-05-2008, 10:25 PM

Paul,

Shutdown as you have described would not be OS initiated, more likely a hardware fault causing it. The OS would shutdown quickly but with some amount of grace. The ungraceful sudden shutdown you indicate is more like a system detecting a fault condition. This can lead to key OS files becoming corrupted and then you get the BSOD. Some BSOD's are fixable some are not. Either way usually you can retrive your data by placeing the disk in another system via a USB enclosure and relevant adapters.

Last week i had the similar situation with a user, reporting fan always on and over heating. After opening it up we discovered dust blocking the air passage between fan and exhaust. This was keeping the heat inside and hence making the System board keep the fan on more often. Until eventual overheating causes shutdown. The abnormal shutdowns eventually caused registry corruptions such that the system became unstable and so we reloaded it, post cleaning and replacing CPU and System board (just incase the heat had damaged these).

What make model is your system?

If your battery last 20mins then even if external power failed you would continue on battery so sounds like something internal to your laptop.

Regards
Fahim

[1ponders] (Paul) · #8 07-05-2008, 11:20 PM

Its about a 2-3 yo Acer Aspire 3000. Its generally been pretty good up until now. As I said the fan has been a bit noisy lately and it has had a pretty good caning during its life, it's my outside imaging control laptop. Plenty of dew and dust in this baby, plus when I'm outside I have a towel on the table where the laptop sits so it isn't getting very good air circulation underneath it.

I suppose I should really retire it this year. It's been a dedicated hard worker, especially the way I thump it about with Photoshop

netwolf · #9 08-05-2008, 12:14 AM

Paul, if its got warranty its worth getting it checked out if not open it up yourself and take a peak.

Regards

Jeff · #10 08-05-2008, 01:06 AM

Might want to be careful placing the laptop on a towel while it is running. I had a several month old Dell laptop recently die on me after placing it on the carpet overnight (with the lid shut, but still running). Turned out that the air intake is underneath and placing on a bed or carpet causes major overheating with the Dells (lots of Goggle hits of similar things hapenning to many people).

Fix for the Dell was to replace the motherboard and memory (got this done under warranty ... luckily). Suspect yours could be shutting down due to heat issues (inbuilt protection in the BIOS). Might we worth installing a "monitor" program from the manf site or Download.com to see what's hapenning with fan speeds and CPU temperature.

Good Luck,
Jeff

[1ponders] (Paul) · #11 08-05-2008, 09:52 AM

It's well out of warranty Fahim so I will open it up and have a look. Any suggestions on how to de-dust it?

Jeff, I've been thinking for a while about this exact issue but I wasn't expecting it to just shut down. Guess I'd better put a smooth surface underneath it then. Its just the smooth surfaces collect so much dew.

acropolite (Phil) · #12 08-05-2008, 10:09 AM

Paul, there should be a power indicator to show power is being supplied by the plugpack. Kinks in the low voltage side of the power supply could be the problem, overheating as the others have said and dust. Dust often has an affinity for moisture (particularly if plaster or cement are involved) and can become conductive. I'd be dismantling

the beast and cleaning any dust out. Don't try and pull it apart without a manual, they can usually be downloaded from the manufacturers site, once you have the technical manual and the associated instructions pulling apart should present no real problem.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #13 08-05-2008, 11:04 AM

I think I will give it a bit of a clean out. What do you suggest for removing the dust from around the fan housing?

GTB_an_Owl (Geoff) · #14 08-05-2008, 12:27 PM

soft brush and any sort of blower like a balloon pump or even hair dryer Paul

i use compressed air in my workshop - but i have made sure it is well filtered

you can buy a platform that has fans in it - runs off a usb port on the laptop to put the laptop on

or you can use something like a metal cake airer/cooler - flatten two of the metal legs to give it a bit of angle - lets the air circulate under the lappy

geoff

rally · #15 08-05-2008, 12:47 PM

I would seriously doubt its dust causing this particular problem, but maybe worth a clean if you have eliminated everything else.

Try not to blow the dust into the circuit board if you can help it - vacuum the dust off and then maybe a final blow off with high pressure air.
Its not recommended but I have done it many, many times in one particu;ar dirty environment and have never had even a little problem - but I was using high pressure air from a compressor through an air gun.

You probably run more risk damaging things by disassembling than if you left it - dust and all.

Sounds to me like its power related - somehow the power is being interrupted, either through a bad connection, dry joint as was suggested or maybe the power supply is cutting out or has a problem.

Could be heat related in that a crack or bad joint opens up due to a temperature change and breaks contact. ?

Check all the contact connections, joints and wires and the battery pack thoroughly before pulling it apart completely.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #16 22-05-2008, 01:26 AM

ARRRGGGGH!!!! It did it again. And its definitely a USB problem. I'd been using the self guider on my SBIG all night, it started to play up for some reason so I switched over to the GPUSB adapter and within 10 min ...Crash. Same story as last time, no warning just shut off. I rebooted, the computer did a files che ck, windows started up, got autoguiding again ...crash, but this time there was a screen that came up saying that it was a usb problem. The only thing that had been added from what had already been there all night was the Shoestring Adapter.

Is there anything I can do?

Zuts · #17 22-05-2008, 08:02 AM

Hi,

If it is the USB port, maybe you can bypass the one on the motherboard and get a PCMCIA one and then run this to a powered USB hub. PCMCIA usb cards are cheap and can be got for around 20 AUD.

Paul

[1ponders] (Paul) · #18 22-05-2008, 10:00 AM

Hi Paul, I have a spare usb port on my laptop so I'll try using this and bypassing the hub, just means another longer cable from the spaghetti tree.

The only problem with using a USB PCMCIA card is that that slot is currently occupied with a wireless network PCMCIA card. If I get rid of that how will I keep in touch with ISS when I'm out in the middle of the paddock?

netwolf · #19 22-05-2008, 12:16 PM

Could there be a ground loop? I am assuming you are using a powered usb hub.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #20 22-05-2008, 03:55 PM

I guess it is possible Fahim, but it only happens with the GPUSB plugged in. My electrical setup has me running all AC connections through Clipsal 4 outlet RCD (the heavy duty orange ones) except for the laptop and AC adapter for the hub. Those two run off a 4 plug board plugged into the RCD. For that board I have:

Laptop>powered USB hub via USB cable> PCFC focusing (Shoestring), guide camera, GPUSB (Shoestring). The GPUSB then goes to my handcontroller port in the Digital Drive.

USB adapter> USB hub

The digital drive is powered by a 2 amp regulated ac>dc tranformer that is plugged into a different point in the RCD to the laptop and usb hub. I also have dew heaters running from other ac>dc transformers but again are using seperate points in the RCD.

The only thing I'm sceptical about the ground loop theory is that the blue screen info that came up the second time definitely said it was a USB driver issue. I can't remember the whole lot but it filled the screen and it was different to the usual blue screen of death.