Italy to help Kenya develop Space Program

[sheeny (Al)]

From Nature Physics Portal:

http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080402/pdf/452517a.pdf

Al.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Quite frankly, I think Kenya should be concentrating more on fixing its social and political problems before it even thinks of starting a space program. This is just a grandiose, chest beating exercise on the part of the Kenyan Government and will not serve the Kenyan people at all. Wait awhile, until they've dragged themselves out of trouble before they think of starting one.

[CoombellKid]

Gee... ya mean one day there will come a time... in the not too distant
future, Kenya is going to be more technical advanced in the aerospace
industry than Australia. Nice eh' what does that say about us.

regards,CS

[renormalised (Carl)]

What it says is that we're run by "bean counters" and "tale tattlers" (economists and lawyers), that have no idea of anything outside of their narrow world views, have no interest in or any idea about science, and that we've been in this parlous state for so long that we're rapidly going backward. We need more scientist to become interested in politics.

[skwinty (Steve)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

What it says is that we're run by "bean counters" and "tale tattlers" (economists and lawyers), that have no idea of anything outside of their narrow world views, have no interest in or any idea about science, and that we've been in this parlous state for so long that we're rapidly going backward. We need more scientist to become interested in politics.

If I ,as a South African can add to this discussion albeit unqualified, I would like to make two points.

1. Italy helping Kenya with their space program.
If it was the USA, Russia or China then there would be cause for concern.

2. I attended a presentation wrt SKA and South Africa's chances over Australia. The general feeling in South Africa is one of optimism for a number of reasons. The first is the governments committment to Astronomy and science in general. They have passed a series of legislation in favour of Astronomy and Science. Secondly when the presentation showed the South African tean involved in the SKA bid there were about 25 people (male and female). The average age was in the mid 20's and only 3 were astronomers, the remainder were scientists, engineers in various related disciplines.

On the Australian side there were less than 10, all astronomers and the average age in the 50's.

So , perhaps the problem in Australia is lack of governmet involvement and lack of interest from the youth of Australia.

Just an interested outsiders opinion.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by skwinty

If I ,as a South African can add to this discussion albeit unqualified, I would like to make two points.

1. Italy helping Kenya with their space program.
If it was the USA, Russia or China then there would be cause for concern.

2. I attended a presentation wrt SKA and South Africa's chances over Australia. The general feeling in South Africa is one of optimism for a number of reasons. The first is the governments committment to Astronomy and science in general. They have passed a series of legislation in favour of Astronomy and Science. Secondly when the presentation showed the South African tean involved in the SKA bid there were about 25 people (male and female). The average age was in the mid 20's and only 3 were astronomers, the remainder were scientists, engineers in various related disciplines.

On the Australian side there were less than 10, all astronomers and the average age in the 50's.

So , perhaps the problem in Australia is lack of governmet involvement and lack of interest from the youth of Australia.

Just an interested outsiders opinion.

I agree with you, Steve, to a point. There's always been a lack of government involvement and interest in science in Australia. Like politicians everywhere, most have an aversion to anything outside their narrow field of interest. As to the youth....that is a symptom of the education system and a society that treats science as something weird and not "normal". It's something not just applicable to Australia. It's rather endemic in many Western societies.

Regardless of whether it's Italy, th US, Russia or anyone else, there should be cause for concern where a country that's in the state it is, such as Kenya, will invest its money and time into something that at present it just doesn't need. They have more pressing problems to deal with than creating a space program.

[skwinty (Steve)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

there should be cause for concern where a country that's in the state it is, such as Kenya, will invest its money and time into something that at present it just doesn't need. They have more pressing problems to deal with than creating a space program.

I agree, this is true of most of Africa. I never took this aspect into consideration because Kenya is not the worst Africa has to offer.If it were Zimbabwe then the idea of a space program would be laughable.
I took it from coombellkid's perspective of Kenya being more advanced than Australia in the space race.
In any event one could say that there would be economic spinoffs for Kenya if they embarked on this project.

But as you say, do these countries need to make this space adventure a first priority? Here in South Africa the students and lecturers at Stellenbosch University started a space company which sells satellites internationally. The technology is very advanced and competitive and is local technology designed and built by the University. The Russians were supposed to launch a sateelite for us 2 years ago but due to suspected pressure from the US have not done so. They had even modified their submarine fleet and ICBM missile for the launch. I think that South Africa is an exception rather than the norm when it comes to the rest of Africa.

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

It needs more of us to be a voice for science out in the mainstream community in Australia, I certainly get a lot out of doing my science show and get very good feedback from the community for my show.
I just need to get more of it up on the web on my podcast site (askthe scienceguru.com) !
You are right about Africa generally needing a few more basic services first !
Its great to see your South Africa involvement on the forum Steve

[skwinty (Steve)]

Hi Ian
It is wonderful having a forum like this to participate in as its very active and diverse. I havent come across another like it.
I also think that South Africans and Australians have a lot in common other than cricket, rugby and the British.
This forum has become a daily addiction and the spirit of sharing information and ideas is refreshing in todays self centred world.

[bojan]

Guys,
have anyone considered this article as an April fool day joke? (one day belated but still.. )
Below I placed a link to another weird story, but I think it belongs to the same category (jokes, that is.. although, being the employee of japanese company, and knowing something of an attidude of Japanese public towards gadgets, I would not be surprised if this is actually a real thing))
http://www.ntt.com/release_e/news08/0004/0407.html

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by skwinty

The Russians were supposed to launch a sateelite for us 2 years ago but due to suspected pressure from the US have not done so. They had even modified their submarine fleet and ICBM missile for the launch. I think that South Africa is an exception rather than the norm when it comes to the rest of Africa.

That could be a potential disaster!!!!

Can you imagine, with the US Government being as trigger happy as it is right now, what would happen if you launched a satellite on an ICBM out of a Russian boomer??!!!

WW3???!!!

[skwinty (Steve)]

Apparently, the issue was more about the capability and resolution of the cameras on board the satellite.
However this is speculation.
The new nano-satellites being produced here have a revisit capability of 1 day which is significantly better than the current 4 day revisit period.
The cameras on board these nano-satellites which get launched in formations of up to 5 satelites, can identify crops, type and age and tell when the ideal time for harvest is. They can also tell the moisture content of the soil and the resolution is currently at 1.5m from 500km. The latest resolutions are still unknown and classified but I expect that soon will be less than 1metre.
What is for sure, is that it is better to convert existing stocks of ICBM's to launch satellites rather than warheads. The Russians have used this method before to launch satellites with the US knowing about it.
Actually saw pictures of a launch. These launches take place on the surface and not submerged. Quite impressive.
Anyway, so now we sit with our satellites on the ground. Time to initiate a rocket building program!

[renormalised (Carl)]

When talking about space programs and the technologies involved, as I was saying before, the Australian Government and industry has an absolutely woeful participation record in developing and supporting such ventures.

However, our scientist and the universities involved are some of the best in the world. We just don't get the funding or support that we should be. The government here has more interest in supporting some doped up athlete run around like a twat for a piece of metal on a ribbon than fund something which may have some benefit to the country. Not to disparage athletes and sport, but you'd think the government could get their priorities right for a change. You don't need to fund a NASA sized program or agency (not that NASA is that well funded), but you could at least give those that are trying to push into the "final frontier" a chance at achieving their goals and bring the benefits back home. Instead of having to go, cap in hand, somewhere else and all the benefits just seep away to elsewhere.

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by skwinty

Apparently, the issue was more about the capability and resolution of the cameras on board the satellite.
However this is speculation.
The new nano-satellites being produced here have a revisit capability of 1 day which is significantly better than the current 4 day revisit period.
The cameras on board these nano-satellites which get launched in formations of up to 5 satelites, can identify crops, type and age and tell when the ideal time for harvest is. They can also tell the moisture content of the soil and the resolution is currently at 1.5m from 500km. The latest resolutions are still unknown and classified but I expect that soon will be less than 1metre.
What is for sure, is that it is better to convert existing stocks of ICBM's to launch satellites rather than warheads. The Russians have used this method before to launch satellites with the US knowing about it.
Actually saw pictures of a launch. These launches take place on the surface and not submerged. Quite impressive.
Anyway, so now we sit with our satellites on the ground. Time to initiate a rocket building program!

Future generations will not be so happy, maybe. There is so much stuff up there, from bolts and screws at orbital velocity to who knows what, and it is so hard to track let alone get rid of, where will they put the satellites they require?

Paul

[allan gould]

Originally Posted by renormalised

When talking about space programs and the technologies involved, as I was saying before, the Australian Government and industry has an absolutely woeful participation record in developing and supporting such ventures.

However, our scientist and the universities involved are some of the best in the world. We just don't get the funding or support that we should be. The government here has more interest in supporting some doped up athlete run around like a twat for a piece of metal on a ribbon than fund something which may have some benefit to the country. Not to disparage athletes and sport, but you'd think the government could get their priorities right for a change. You don't need to fund a NASA sized program or agency (not that NASA is that well funded), but you could at least give those that are trying to push into the "final frontier" a chance at achieving their goals and bring the benefits back home. Instead of having to go, cap in hand, somewhere else and all the benefits just seep away to elsewhere.

The major reason for the woeful lack of political interest in Science is due to the fact that most politicians can't even understand grade 5 science, and the one that thought he could - Labour's "Barry Moans" - actually talked over the top of a scientist giving a presentation, as that blow-hard thought he knew better on the subject.
If they cant stick their snouts into it then they just are not interested. Just look at where Australia's silicon/solar energy went to for finance - China.
Politicians and science just don't mix, because it takes too much for them to understand past a 15 second sound bite.
Just my personal opinion.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by allan gould

The major reason for the woeful lack of political interest in Science is due to the fact that most politicians can't even understand grade 5 science, and the one that thought he could - Labour's "Barry Moans" - actually talked over the top of a scientist giving a presentation, as that blow-hard thought he knew better on the subject.
If they cant stick their snouts into it then they just are not interested. Just look at where Australia's silicon/solar energy went to for finance - China.
Politicians and science just don't mix, because it takes too much for them to understand past a 15 second sound bite.
Just my personal opinion.

I totally agree. If they think they can make money out of it (something they understand), they're all for it. If it actually takes thinking about it (something beyond their capacities), they run a mile in the opposite direction. "Barry Moans" is a joke...wins a few quiz shows and thinks he's Einstein.