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  #1  
Old 11-05-2006, 09:38 AM
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ving (David)
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toucam question

in my quest for an astrometry tool for measuring double star separation and position angle, merlin sugested a program for CCDs called reduc... so theres the background of the question so you know why i am interested in the answer.

now the question is: what magnitude can an unmodded toucam image down to?
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:10 PM
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ving (David)
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no one got a toucam they can test for me and get back then?
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  #3  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:23 PM
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Std webcam limiting mags

Good question... don't know. I try to find out at the weekend, but with a max
exposure of only 1/15 sec I don't think you'll get very far....maybe Sirius??
Obviously far better with an SC1 Mod version.
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:25 PM
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If I were you ving I'd be thinking about a minatron or small SAC camera
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  #5  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:29 PM
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whys that paul?
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  #6  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:38 PM
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With low gain the ToUcam can easily get the 6 main trap stars in Orion. With higher gain, you might be able to get others as well. I don't know what mag they are, but you could look it up.

I'd think you could get up to mag 7 o 8 for point sources..?
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:38 PM
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oh yeah, it'd go in my 8" f/6 newt...
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  #8  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:39 PM
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Hi Ving

A bit of a ramble follows.

I have used the Meade LPI (16 second maximum) to image some double stars. However, to capture those with a smaller separation angle, you need to start using Barlow’s, thus getting into multi-second exposures, which are problematic in bad seeing. Also, anything over 3 or 4 seconds with the LPI produced quite a few hot pixels, which appear as red, blue or green noise specks in the image.

The best results I have had are with my SBIG ST7E which is cooled, but obviously completely out of the question for what you want due to cost.

I have also used the Orion Star Shoot Deep Space Imager, but at $579 from Sirius Optics that too is also expensive.

Good luck with the project, it sounds fun...and challenging.

Cheers

Dennis
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Old 11-05-2006, 01:45 PM
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so an LPI will do up to 16secs hey... maybe the lpi is for me then.

thanks dennis

7-8 mag with the toucam.... argh! maybe thats enough for the brighter doubles.

well atleast it gives me something to think about.
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  #10  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:50 PM
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what part of the sky mate, say the coal sack at 208x magnification, there are some mag 6 stars there, would that help get you close to an answer

or is there a nice bunch of varying magnitude stars close together that will tell you better. Weather looks good here, so i could try tonight
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  #11  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ving
so an LPI will do up to 16secs hey... maybe the lpi is for me then.

thanks dennis

7-8 mag with the toucam.... argh! maybe thats enough for the brighter doubles.

well atleast it gives me something to think about.
Just to reiterate so your expectations are not dashed.....expect noise and horrible looking images at 16 seconds, due to lack of cooling. Might be slightly better in winter when it's 0 deg outside though? Also, don't forget the strain on your tracking system if using Barlow’s.

The doubles I grabbed with the LPI were using my Vixen 4” f9 refractor and a Vixen GPDX mount, which is quite a good, steady combination for wide-ish doubles.

Cheers

Dennis
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:55 PM
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star from mag6 and work your way down i guess dave... see how low your can get. also apart from imaging, on screen what mag stars'll show?
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  #13  
Old 11-05-2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis
Just to reiterate so your expectations are not dashed.....expect noise and horrible looking images at 16 seconds, due to lack of cooling. Might be slightly better in winter when it's 0 deg outside though? Also, don't forget the strain on your tracking system if using Barlow’s.

The doubles I grabbed with the LPI were using my Vixen 4” f9 refractor and a Vixen GPDX mount, which is quite a good, steady combination for wide-ish doubles.

Cheers

Dennis
i guess idealy one could take shorter exposures and stack them then?
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  #14  
Old 11-05-2006, 02:04 PM
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Meade LPI examples

Hi Ving

Here are the doubles and the exposures used to capture them.

Rigil Kentaurus & Acrux: Exp 0.25 secs. Approx 20 frames combined.
Theta 1 Ori: Exp 2.8 secs. 12 frames combined. Dark Frames used.
Antares: Exp 0.5 secs. Approx 20 frames combined.

Rigil Kentaurus and Acrux were captured using Vixen x2 Barlow.
Theta 1 Ori was captured using Televue x5 PowerMate.
Antares was captured using Televue x5 PowerMate and Vixen x2 Barlow stacked.

Note the use of dark frames with Theta 1 Ori (Trapezium) and the atmospheric smearing.

Equipment Used: Vixen ED102mm f9 refractor, TeleVue x5 PowerMate, Vixen x2 Barlow, Meade LPI CMOS digital camera.

Cheers

Dennis
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  #15  
Old 11-05-2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ving
star from mag6 and work your way down i guess dave... see how low your can get. also apart from imaging, on screen what mag stars'll show?
based around a non tracking sytem??
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  #16  
Old 11-05-2006, 03:42 PM
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I have a ra drive dave, i dont always use it but i prolly will for this.
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2006, 04:32 PM
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How's your polar alignment ving
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2006, 04:34 PM
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not too bad paul, yours?
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  #19  
Old 11-05-2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ving
not too bad paul, yours?
@ ving. I can vouch for hot pixels on the LPI, but you can subtract them out with dark frames.
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  #20  
Old 11-05-2006, 09:25 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Vingo,

this is the trap using the Toucam without using the Long Exposure Mod feature.

Yep the focus is all over the place, but you can see some pretty faint stars in there!!! You'll have to look up the mags of each.

No Tracking, and 12" dob. Just 12 seconds of video as it moved across the EP, then stacked in Registax.

Hope that helps
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