Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > Astronomy and Amateur Science
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 09-05-2006, 08:31 AM
higginsdj's Avatar
higginsdj
A Lazy Astronomer

higginsdj is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 614
Cbet 507 : 20060508 : (4029) Bridges

Got my 4th CBET last night. This one was for discovering the binary nature of Minor Planet 4029 Bridges (my 3rd such discovery).

Our survey PI, Dr Petr Pravec (Astronomical Institute, Czech Republic) will present some interim findings from this and our previous survey at MACE 2006 in Europe. The survey consists of a roughly 50/50 mix of amateurs and professional observatories and we are always keen for new blood.

The basic requirement is precision differential photometry of moving targets averaging mag 15.5 (nothing typically brighter than mag 14.5) to 0.02mag (no worse than 0.03mag). This is not suited to the 'one night a week' or 'weekend' imagers - this is full on imaging every clear night for each target you take on (and it can take as little as 2-3 days for a non binary to more than a motnh for binaries) until they are 'done'.

The rewards are good - be one of only a handful of people (even fewer amateurs) to have ever discovered a moon orbiting an asteroid!

Cheers

David Higgins
E14
Canberra, Australia
http://www.david-higgins.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-05-2006, 08:47 AM
iceman's Avatar
iceman (Mike)
Sir Post a Lot!

iceman is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gosford, NSW, Australia
Posts: 36,799
David,

Congratulations on a remarkable discovery. I just had a good look at your website, it's a very nice site with lots of great information! Well done.

Can you explain some of the process you use to discover these binaries? How long does your imaging run last for a given object on a given night?

Do you use software to compare the images taken each night to look for something moving, which would indicate a binary?

Very intriguing! Not something I have time (or equipment) to pursue at this stage in my life, but i'm very interested to hear about it.

It's great to see some people doing real science, unlike me who just takes pretty pictures of the planets and looks at pretty things in the sky

I look forward to more of your contributions on IIS.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-05-2006, 03:13 PM
fringe_dweller's Avatar
fringe_dweller
on the highway to Hell

fringe_dweller is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,623
Big Congrats David, that must a great feeling :-) nice website - your doing some very interesting work there!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-05-2006, 03:18 PM
ving's Avatar
ving (David)
~Dust bunny breeder~

ving is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The town of campbells
Posts: 12,359
congrats David! thats something to aspire to. great work!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-05-2006, 04:27 PM
h0ughy's Avatar
h0ughy (David)
Moderator

h0ughy is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NEWCASTLE NSW Australia
Posts: 33,428
WOW, contributing to the world wide effort! Congratulations David! Your efforts are rewarded. Thanks for letting us know.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-05-2006, 04:28 PM
ving's Avatar
ving (David)
~Dust bunny breeder~

ving is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The town of campbells
Posts: 12,359
this is what i am talking about houghy, we have some of the best of everything astro!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-05-2006, 04:49 PM
Dennis
Dazzled by the Cosmos.

Dennis is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 11,820
What a wonderful marriage - your hobby and scientific pursuits combined as one. Congratulations on the discoveries and thanks for an interesting website. Do keep us informed of your various projects; it is a fascinating insight into the twilight world of amateur/professional collaboration.

Cheers

Dennis
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-05-2006, 08:04 PM
higginsdj's Avatar
higginsdj
A Lazy Astronomer

higginsdj is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 614
Thanks guys.

To fill in some details for Iceman........ The target is observed from the moment it rises over the observatory horizon to the time it sets. This will involve a series of up to 300 second duration guided images - perhaps 120 images per target a night. When taking on new targets or slow rotators I sometimes do 2 or even 3 targets.

Fortunately my observatory is automated so I can leave it to it's own devices while I sleep soundly in bed. It does all that it needs to move from target to target and back again, changing filters or refocusing as needed. It also reads the targets via the MPCORD.dat ephemeris and re-points to keep the target in the centre of the field.

I get up in the morning, download the images and then close up the observtory (the software parks the scope at sun-up or when the last target sets - whichever it the earlier.)

Ideally we want to get at least 2 nights in a row then at least one other night for the typical rotator (somewhere in the 4-8 hr period range for our target group) and for slow rotators we want to pass the session over to the next observer in another part of the world for continuous coverage. Recently we successfully imaged a target with a period of 35 hours continuously. We used differential photometry but our sessions overlapped so it was covered continuously for nearly 60 hours by 3 observers (Australia, Europe and US). Unfortunatley I'm the only one doing this work for the survey for our longitude range. There are 3 other Aussie amateurs doing some ad hoc MP lightcurve work and they are getting good results.

Anyway, once we have the images they are flat and dark calibrated then loaded into whats become the standard package for this type of work - MPO Canopus. We choose 5 reference stars and ID the target placement at the first and last image then run through each image correctly orienting the measuring annuli and picking the images that are usable or not. Until recently, if the target passed too close to a background star (even faint ones) we had to ditch the image but Brain Warner put a nice new feature into Canopus that allows us to subtract these annoying stars and thus gain extra data.

Although the software will allow me to derive a period for the primary, all I can do is identify that there is a likely partner based on the shape of the curve and hand the data off to the professionals to analyse (Petr has a piece of software that can identify up to 3 (possibly more) underlying periods - we actually found an asteroid with 3 distinct periods in it's curve - but no mutual events. This has never been seen before and has the pros baffled - but thats another story ).

Once the binary nature is 'confirmed' the pros step in (where they can) to confirm via observation (well up until this target - I guess they trust my observations now ). We're required to get mutliple coverage of the primary rotation and cover the secondary period at least twice. Of course like any other binary (Planetary Moon, Binary Star, Extrasolar Planet), the binary nature is confirmed by the observation of mutual events (2 distinct dips in the curve) in the secondary period.

The depth of these events range from 0.04 to 0.2 mag. You can see why we need such precision now. These targets are considerably more difficult to measure than the hunt for extrasolar planets!

I welcome any other questions anyone might have.

Cheers

David
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-05-2006, 08:36 PM
venus's Avatar
venus (Lydia)
AstroNan

venus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 685
Interesting and great achievement David!
Another reason why we here at Newcastle need a community observatory. Without an observatory we can only dream about such acomplishments.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-05-2006, 09:27 PM
higginsdj's Avatar
higginsdj
A Lazy Astronomer

higginsdj is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 614
Hey Venus, you can do more than just dream about it..... One of those other amateurs I mentioned is just up the road from you at Nelsons Bay with relatively modest equipment. Of course it would be advantageous to have a community or local Astronomical Society observatory setup.

I actually started observing as a Service Observer on the Mt Stromlo 74" in the observing season immediately prior to the Canberra bushfires that destroyed the scopes. We got paid - but more importantly we got trained free in pro observing techniques. This was the same time I actually got into astronomy so I never really did any visual observing though I have attended my share of public nights. Many other Canberra amateurs cut their teeth on Stromlos Reynolds 30". Unfortunately those days are gone and it will be a few years before any more opportunities arise.

Cheers

David
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-05-2006, 06:59 AM
venus's Avatar
venus (Lydia)
AstroNan

venus is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 685
True David, though I'm thinking collectively here and not just about myself.

Edit:Okay I maybe be sounding bitter and jealous here? Sorry
Your hard work is paying off and that's amazingly great news and also puts Australian science at the forefront of astronomical discovery

Last edited by venus; 10-05-2006 at 07:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 06:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Astrophotography Prize
Advertisement