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Old 03-03-2012, 03:53 PM
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EricB (Eric)
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The tribulations of a very experienced astrophotographer

Hi there!

A few weeks ago, I got myself a 10" Sky Watcher dobsonian flex goto scope with the view of trying my hand at lunar and planetary astrophotography. In a previous thread, I asked about entry-level ccd cameras (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=86413) and took up Poita's generous offer to lend me his Imaging Source DMK21 to "try before I buy" (thanks Poita!).

Upon receiving the camera, I installed ICapture on my laptop (the software comes with the camera) and downloaded Registax 6. So far so good.

I was told by the astronomy dealer I had planned to buy the camera from that the problem with the Sky Watcher focuser I had on my scope was that it didn't have enough travel to reach focus with the Imagining Source cameras (not enough "rack in", to be precise). Luckily, my scope being collapsible, I could shorten the length of the scope by not extended it fully. I eagerly awaited for night fall with the intention of testing the DMK on Jupiter which was still visible in early evening.

The first night was a disaster. I hooked up the DMK in the focuser. I could find Jupiter in the viewfinder, but could see it on the computer screen (I was operating the scope manually). When I eventually caught it and kept it on screen for a few seconds, all I could see was a huge disc with swirls and the shadows of the secondary's arms... By the time I had my hand on the focuser, the disc was gone! I tried again and again only to managed to focus to a smaller white fuzzy disc. I was demoralised.

The next day (following Poita's advice), I tested the camera during the day. I shorten the scope by 15mm, pointed the scope to a far tree and managed to get the camera in focus. While I was at it, I took a few snapshots and a couple videos of gumtree leaves to practise on ICapure. Night time came, the scope was set up (extended minus 15mn). The viewfinder was perfectly aligned. This time, I had the tracking enabled. I aimed a Jupiter, locked it on the computer screen, focused... All I got was a nice white disc. I tried on stars and could only see the brightest ones on the screen and couldn't quite focus on them.

After a rainy interlude of a couple of days, I took the camera out one last time (I didn't want to abuse Poita's kindness by keeping the camera too long). The scope was set up at minus 25 mm. It was still daylight. The sky was overcast, it was windy but there was a 15 mn break during which I could catch the Moon, low in the western sky. As it was a much easier target than Jupiter, I caught it quickly on screen and managed to focus on it. The camera focus wasn't perfect, far from it, but the focuser could travel either way of the focus point. I knew then that the length of the scope was right for the camera. I recorded 3 AVI videos of about 10/15 seconds each with the Moon coming in and out of high clouds and the scope shaking in the win.

I have processed 2 of the AVis which show the moon drifting through the visual field. I ended up trimming each video to 3 seconds of the most stable images and stack about 300 frames on Registax. Here are the two resulting pictures. Bearing in mind the very bad seeing conditions, my total inexperience in imaging, the ad hoc set up of the scope, I am rather pleased with the photos (see attached).

So what do I take out of all this?

Well, I can no longer take for granted that imaging is just a matter of popping a camera in the focuser and pressing on the Record button. I now foresee that it's much more than that. I am going to have to do my homework!

I also know that the scope as to be perfectly set up in order to locate and track the target object through ICapture.

I now sense that focusing the camera is a very big issue. I was only able to achieve rough focus. I need to get myself one of these focusing masks to improve focus.

I have worked out that my SW dobs scope isn't ideal to be used with an Imaging Source camera. But shortening the scope by 1 inch is a way to get around the issue (but with that configuration, I no longer get my EPs in focus, there is some fine tuning to be done to get both the camera and the EPs in focus at the same time).

It's also important to ask someone when you are stuck. I would have gone nowhere without Poita's help.

No matter how frustrating this challenge has been, I got a result, as imperfect it may be, and want to go further. Soon, I will get my own camera!

Any advice is welcomed.

Cheers,

Eric

PS Sorry for the long message.
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Last edited by EricB; 03-03-2012 at 09:02 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:32 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Good on you Eric, practice makes perfect. What you are saying sounds very familiar, almost like Déjà vu and yes you are correct: focus is critical and often overlooked by beginners. Unfortunately good focus will then show other aberrations, such as coma, tilt, field rotation, bad seeing, dew, etc... it s a long road so keep doing what you're doing and enjoy the journey. The important thing is to be happy with your shots and what you get out of your gear.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:16 PM
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jjjnettie (Jeanette)
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Thank you very much for your story. I hope to be doing exactly the same thing next week. It's good to know that I can shorten the extension support struts to gain focus.
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:18 PM
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Thanks. It has really been trial and error. It not over yet, but I knowhave an idea of what to expect.

Once I have the camera, I will probably permanently set up the scope short for photography, and may use a short an extension tube to focus the aeps if required. Jjjnetie, let us know how you go with your own set up.

Cheers,

Eric
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:52 AM
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JB80 (Jarrod)
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Do you think I would have the same issues with my Skywatcher 150PL?
I am close to pulling the trigger on a DMK41 but now reading this I don't know.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:11 AM
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Hi Jarrod,

I don't know your model, other members may have an idea. What triggered the whole issue is that I asked the dealer to tell me if the DBK 21 was fine to used with my scope (eg whether it needed an adapter). I suggest you ask your dealer.

Cheers,

Eric
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:13 PM
Poita (Peter)
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Eric, have a go with Autostakkert as well with the data you gathered and see how you go.
http://www.autostakkert.com/
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:04 PM
Poita (Peter)
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The camera arrived back today. Thanks Eric!
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:59 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB View Post

Any advice is welcomed.
Hi Eric.

Yes, my advice is give up now!

Unless you have a bottomless bank account
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:47 AM
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ZeroID (Brent)
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Hi Eric, congrats on your successful capture. I have still yet to get my own setup working but the journey is proving immensely interesting and educational. Close but no prize so far.
I used my Bahtinov mask for the first time the other night and suddenly understood just how it worked and how useful it was going to be.
Keep the updates coming, we aspiring astrophotogs need all the encouragement we can get to stick with it.
A limitless credit card helps too btw, I seem to have lost mine.

Last edited by ZeroID; 06-03-2012 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Spelling fix
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:28 PM
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Hi there! I have just realised the error in the title of the thread. Of course I am not very experienced! I am very INexperienced .

Peter, I am glad the camera got to you quickly safe and sound. I am already missing it.

Thank you ZeroID for the encouragements. If I can help newbies like me avoid the mistakes I have made, great!

Ballaratdragons, it was astronomy or that nice red convertible middle-aged men sometimes lust on. My wife's happy with astronomy

On a more serious note, reading an article on modding webcams in Projects and Articles section gave me an idea yesterday. I had a old disused Logitec 3000 and decided to have a go at it. I followed David Childs' instructions to the letter. And even if it wasn't the same model, I manages to open the case,take the lens off, close the case and stick a 1.25" plastic tube to the it (a film container). It took me 15 mn to do the job. The tube fits the 1.25" focuser adaptor perfectly. The problem was that neither ICapture nor Firecapture would recognise the webcam. At that point, I thought "that's it, I have wasted my time". Then by chance I downloaded a nice little program call Sharpcap, which luckily did recognise the camera. It first I couldn't focus, but once I have shorted the scope by one inch (like for Peter's DMK), I achieved focus. The Moon was out (very bright though, about 80%) and, to my amazement, I could get a picture! I took about 10 videos of 10 to 20 seconds each, trying to keep my lunar points of references steady on screen. I have processed one of them. The result is attached. Not great but better than I expected from an old webcam that I was going to throw away!

I think beside the poor quality of the camera, I have no idea about how to use Registax. But with those AVIs, I can experiment until I understand how it works.

Cheers,

Eric
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Old 15-03-2012, 06:30 PM
robz (Robert)
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EricB!...................that shot of the moon with an old webcam is incredible.
I have just picked up a brand new Logitech C600 which has a native 2MP chip for $27.00!!!!!...............this will be dismantled and built in to a cast aluminium case with 2 inch nose peice. Will be interesting to see how it performs as a planetary imager....???????

Rob.
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Old 15-03-2012, 07:50 PM
Poita (Peter)
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Great work!
You now effectively have something on a par with a celestron Neximage, and you will be surprised what you can eke out of it.
Plus, as you said, it is a great way to learn registax/nebulosity/autostakkert etc.
Well done!
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Old 15-03-2012, 10:04 PM
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EricB (Eric)
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Thanks for you encouragements Robert and Peter. I have another webcam, a more recent HD one. I might give that one a try too. But I really have to get on top of registax. I have downloaded Autostakkert but haven't been able to use it.

Cheers,

Eric
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Old 15-03-2012, 10:13 PM
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midnight (Darrin)
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Eric you must have been very happy with that moon image!!

Good luck on your quest. And for me, it took me several weeks to work out why my 1st webcam images were terrible. The gain was too high so all I was getting was a white Saturn with no detail.

Control Gain and Exposure on your camera. Normally it's somewhere in "properties" in your capture program.

Use Registax 6 and start with its default settings (ie selecting bugger all) and give that a go.

Good luck!!!

Darrin...
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Old 16-03-2012, 08:30 PM
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Thanks Darrin, I had the gain and exposure to minimum otherwise the picture would have been completely washed out.
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Old 16-03-2012, 10:08 PM
Poita (Peter)
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Are those doubled up craters a result of the stacking, or is there some reflection somewhere in your chain?
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Old 16-03-2012, 11:34 PM
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jenchris (Jennifer)
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EricB - great result - did you realise you've got a huge ghost on there - every crater is duplicated up and left!!
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Old 17-03-2012, 12:05 AM
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EricB (Eric)
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Yes, it's not great. I wonder whether it come for the alignment in Registax.

By the way I have tried to process this AVI in Autostakkert, but I don't know where the final stacked picture is saved. I can find the log of the processing session but not the picture. Could someone tell me where it is?

Is there a save in folder option in Autostakkert?

Thanks,

Eric
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Old 17-03-2012, 12:18 AM
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asimov (John)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricB View Post
Yes, it's not great. I wonder whether it come for the alignment in Registax.

By the way I have tried to process this AVI in Autostakkert, but I don't know where the final stacked picture is saved. I can find the log of the processing session but not the picture. Could someone tell me where it is?

Is there a save in folder option in Autostakkert?

Thanks,

Eric
It'll be in a newly created folder called *example only!* 'AS_p50_multi' or something similar, Eric wherever your original AVI is. Confusing at first. I used to move my AVI to a newly created folder on my desktop, that way I knew where to look..
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