Next webcam (after the ToUcam)

iceman (Mike) · #1 03-03-2006, 06:10 AM

Hi guys.

I'm investigating two possible alternatives for a new capture device (after the ToUcam).

The logical choice would be one of the DMK's, which aren't too bad on the pocket, or if you want to spend extra, the DX or LU which are serious bucks.

However in the "budget" range, i'm looking at:

a) Mintron b/w camera

This is like what Steve Massey uses, and produces amazing images. Cometcatcher and now Mick Pinner also use them.

This should give:
1) Monochrome RGB imaging (full resolution in each colour plane, ability to focus each colour plane)
2) High frame rate no compression

Extra requirements would be:
1) Colour filter wheel (manual (cheaper) or auto (expensive!))
2) Colour filters

So a bit of extra cost.

b) V-Gear TalkCam Tracer CCD

This is a colour webcam, but it appears to be true USB2, so it would definitely be a step up from the ToUcam, as it uses the same chip as the ToUcam (SONY ICX098BQ).

I've been in touch with an Australian supplier of these, and i'm trying to arrange a unit to be sent to me to test it out. At only AU$150 it's priced the same as the ToUcam so would be a huge step up if it turns out to be true USB2 (I've asked them, and they've said it is). They've also confirmed the lens can be removed.

The only other requirement is a 1.25" adapter, so maybe it uses the same threadsize as the ToUcam, but if it doesn't, i'll use a film cannister for now and if it turns out to be good, i'll get Steve Mogg to make one up for me.

Anyway i'll let you know how I go as I get more info on both of these units.

GrampianStars (Rob) · #2 03-03-2006, 06:23 AM

G'day Ice
whats a "Mintron b/w camera" ?

iceman (Mike) · #3 03-03-2006, 06:28 AM

Hi Robert.

The Mintron website is here: http://www.mintron.com/

I'm not sure exactly what camera would be the best one yet - i'm trying to get some ideas off Steve Massey and hope that cometcatcher and Mick P might chime in here as well.

I'd prefer not to answer your moonlite questions in this thread (offtopic) - can you start another one in the Equip forum?

GrampianStars (Rob) · #4 03-03-2006, 06:54 AM

As an alternative to Mintron guys have used the "Astrovid 1/2"- StellaCam II B&W" with a separate remote control box for slow shutter speed [$800US]
Take a look here

http://www.astrovid.com/product_images/139.jpg

Shevill Mathers in Tasmania is getting great results with one here
http://www.apstas.com/astrotas/mathers/AstroVideo.htm

h0ughy (David) · #5 03-03-2006, 07:20 AM

Mike there is a camera being sold at the local computer suppliers has that is true USB2, has low light functions and is a true 1.3mp, and its only $69 in a metal frame. I will try to get more information about it and find out what chip is on it.

iceman (Mike) · #6 03-03-2006, 07:44 AM

Link me up h0ughy..

It's probably a CMOS chip or something, but who knows, maybe we'll be lucky.

Dennis · #7 03-03-2006, 07:52 AM

Hi Mike

Have you discounted the Lumenera range due to their +$1000 cost? I have seen this range of camera used by some of the top Lunar & Planetary imagers.

http://www.astrovid.com/products.php?cat=175

Cheers

Dennis

iceman (Mike) · #8 03-03-2006, 07:59 AM

Yeh Dennis, just too expensive.. I mentioned them in my first post:

Quote:

or if you want to spend extra, the DX or LU which are serious bucks

Bird uses the DX (DragonFly Express), Paolo and others use the LU (Lumenera), and Chris Go and some others use the DMK. All 3 of those would be fantastic, but are serious $$$ ($1k-$2k+).

If you can get a $150 replacement for the ToUcam which is USB2, the ability to capture many more frames (at 15fps or 30fps) in a short period, without data compression, it should be a definite step up for most objects.

Robert_T · #9 03-03-2006, 08:12 AM

Hey Mike, I've been investigating the DMK 21Af04? Uses the B&W version of the Toucam Sony chip... costs about $420euro. This is a low noise version of the one that CHris Go and a few other use so costs a tad more. I have the full details at work if you're interested.

I for one though would be VERY keen to learn about any true USB2 colour webcam using the Toucam chip!!!! So keep us posted.

cheers

Robert_T · #10 03-03-2006, 10:29 PM

any updates Mike?

netwolf · #11 04-03-2006, 12:29 AM

Houghy,

If the one your talking about is this one
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-1-3MP-USB...QQcmdZViewItem

Then stay away from it.. NIGHT vision on this means that in low ligt the bright white LED's come on. I bought one of these (maybe an older model) last year around october and returned it next day. Problem was in a my room with light on the bright almost blinding led come on because sensor is above the camera. And does not detect light that is not directly above it.
Also the one i bought was most definetly CMOS. At work it perfomed well enought for webcam use, in a bright fluro over head light setup. At home it was to bright to look at.

Note i did buy it to try for astro use but i suspected the bright LED's might kill any chance of that.

Note that many of these 1.3mp webcams are 1.3mp for still images and 640x480 for video.
This one is from Swann, but its CMOS.
http://www.swann.com.au/show_item.php?item=176

Regards

iceman (Mike) · #12 14-03-2006, 06:40 AM

No, that's not the one netwolf.. looks.. interesting that one does

Well I have an update about the V-Gear listed in the first post.. After they responded initially saying "no, sorry we don't loan units to the public, policy blah blah", I urged them to reconsider.. Told them that if the camera is as good as it looks on paper, there will be a big market in the amateur astronomy community for a low cost planetary imaging camera.

Told them about IceInSpace, and that they would receive a lot of exposure from it.

It seemed to do the trick - they agreed to send me their test unit for 14 days for a trial. So now I have to work out some scientific methods of testing the ToUcam and the V-Gear side by side.

Will hopefully receive it by the end of the week.

and will then start praying for clear skies and good seeing!

netwolf · #13 17-03-2006, 03:18 PM

Ok cost for this is 149$ from GDB International in ACT, it seems only they have em for the present.

http://www.gdbint.com.au/Product.aspx?pID=281&ptype=c

iceman (Mike) · #14 17-03-2006, 04:38 PM

yeh, I got the test unit today.

Unfortuantely the driver I downloaded for it doesn't work on either the laptop or the desktop

Gotta try and email them now.

davidpretorius · #15 17-03-2006, 04:59 PM

14 - 1 days to go, i hope they extend it whilst you get the drivers.

weather gods, tassie is open for whatever you can throw at it, but do not go near mikes house you hear!!!

davidpretorius · #16 17-03-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netwolf

Ok cost for this is 149$ from GDB International in ACT, it seems only they have em for the present.

http://www.gdbint.com.au/Product.aspx?pID=281&ptype=c

6 lenses, I hope they come out easy for an adapter!!!

Striker (Tony) · #17 17-03-2006, 05:09 PM

On ya Mike..use the power of the forum to your benifit...I do...lol

iceman (Mike) · #18 17-03-2006, 05:15 PM

rofl Tony

I rang them up, turns out they (accidently) sent me a Talkcam HD, instead of the Tracer CCD. Basically the same, except it uses a CMOS chip instead of a CCD chip.

But i've got it working on both desktop and laptop, and it uses RGB24 codec with each frame 900k uncompressed. It works under K3CCDTools.

The initial tests at 10 and 15fps dropped heaps of frames, but my laptop was copying 1gig to my desktop at the time, so hopefully it just couldn't keep up. I'll test again later at 10 and 15fps, hopefully it won't drop frames.

If it does, I need to get a (fast) external USB2 harddrive to capture onto.

They're going to send me a Tracer CCD on Tuesday, so I'll get to test both of them side by side by side with the ToUcam.

[1ponders] (Paul) · #19 17-03-2006, 05:27 PM

Exciting times Mike

iceman (Mike) · #20 17-03-2006, 05:37 PM

Still drops frames at 10 and 15fps

At 10fps, it still captures more frames than at 5fps, so it's worth trying until I get an external HDD.

I'll try a defrag and see then.