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HRT · #1 12-01-2012, 06:51 PM

Greetings,

I'm new here thus I won't be offended if you advise me on where I should go.....

Regardless, telescopes are like peanuts - who can stop at just one? Thus, I have been looking to buy a fourth and this experience has led to the creation of one moan and one grizzle.

It seems that many of the ads are written at about 2 AM when the seller should be sleeping. They are often ambiguous, difficult to understand and replete with abbreviations that must be a mystery to beginners. Moreover, the lack of a comprehensive description leads me to think the advertiser believes Mike charges $100/word.

My point is, ads in shorthand are a pain and lead to a stream of potential buyers asking for more info. All this could be avoided if sellers provided the info they themselves would want if buying the item(s).

My second point concerns the practice of another member adding a comment to an ad along the lines of "Jack's QDL784BH is a fantastic scope and I wish I had the money to buy it" or, "Jack's scope is the best 105mm ED APO SSA I have seen and whoever gets it will be very happy".

When I read comments such as these, I can't help feel I could be being set up. Accordingly, I will not respond to adds which feature praise from a friend.

Am I Mr Crusoe on these points or am I being a little precious?

astroron (Ron) · #2 12-01-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRT

Greetings,

I'm new here thus I won't be offended if you advise me on where I should go.....

Regardless, telescopes are like peanuts - who can stop at just one? Thus, I have been looking to buy a fourth and this experience has led to the creation of one moan and one grizzle.

It seems that many of the ads are written at about 2 AM when the seller should be sleeping. They are often ambiguous, difficult to understand and replete with abbreviations that must be a mystery to beginners. Moreover, the lack of a comprehensive description leads me to think the advertiser believes Mike charges $100/word.

My point is, ads in shorthand are a pain and lead to a stream of potential buyers asking for more info. All this could be avoided if sellers provided the info they themselves would want if buying the item(s).

My second point concerns the practice of another member adding a comment to an ad along the lines of "Jack's QDL784BH is a fantastic scope and I wish I had the money to buy it" or, "Jack's scope is the best 105mm ED APO SSA I have seen and whoever gets it will be very happy".

When I read comments such as these, I can't help feel I could be being set up. Accordingly, I will not respond to adds which feature praise from a friend.

Am I Mr Crusoe on these points or am I being a little precious?

All as I have to say about this post ,is
Not a very good way to introduce your self.

Most people introduce them selves and get to know the forum before being critical.

What experience do you have with telescopes other than buying them

Not much by the sounds of it

Cheers

Stardrifter_WA · #3 12-01-2012, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRT

Greetings,

I'm new here thus I won't be offended if you advise me on where I should go.....

Regardless, telescopes are like peanuts - who can stop at just one? Thus, I have been looking to buy a fourth and this experience has led to the creation of one moan and one grizzle.

It seems that many of the ads are written at about 2 AM when the seller should be sleeping. They are often ambiguous, difficult to understand and replete with abbreviations that must be a mystery to beginners. Moreover, the lack of a comprehensive description leads me to think the advertiser believes Mike charges $100/word.

My point is, ads in shorthand are a pain and lead to a stream of potential buyers asking for more info. All this could be avoided if sellers provided the info they themselves would want if buying the item(s).

My second point concerns the practice of another member adding a comment to an ad along the lines of "Jack's QDL784BH is a fantastic scope and I wish I had the money to buy it" or, "Jack's scope is the best 105mm ED APO SSA I have seen and whoever gets it will be very happy".

When I read comments such as these, I can't help feel I could be being set up. Accordingly, I will not respond to adds which feature praise from a friend.

Am I Mr Crusoe on these points or am I being a little precious?

As for your first point, I agree. As you often need to be quick to respond to an advertisement to get any chance of securing the item, full information would be much appreciated, as would photos, that will give a prospective purchaser a chance to see the condition and check that the item is as described. In that way they can respond quickly.

As for your second point, I disagree. IIS community are, in general, a great bunch and will help each other out, where they can, and as often as they can. I do not see that as being a set-up, if you do your research correctly. Mostly, they are offering genuine, honest and friendly help. In the unlikely event that they were setting someone up, that would be disappointing and, I feel, very surprising. After all, it is a small community and that behaviour would soon be noticed.

I have rarely had to doubt the veracity of any claims, and on the occasions that has happened, it has been openly and widely discussed by others on this site.

I have faith they we are an honest bunch and that any advice is given in an open and honest way. However, as with all things in life, one must take certain precautions when dealing with others. And that is really easy to do. We are a great bunch and IIS is the best place to be.

Stardrifter_WA · #4 12-01-2012, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

All as I have to say about this post ,is
Not a very good way to introduce your self.

Most people introduce them selves and get to know the forum before being critical.

What experience do you have with telescopes other than buying them

Not much by the sounds of it

Cheers

Bit harsh Ron. Some people are just naturally too cautious and that isn't a bad thing.

It is a valid concern. after all.

DavidTrap (David) · #5 12-01-2012, 07:22 PM

If the potential purchaser doesn't understand your ad, you are less likely to make a sale - so, I agree that shorthand isn't advisable.

As to your other comment - it is an open forum, so anyone can comment on another's "for sale thread". I've had people make unsolicited comments on my thread - the potential purchaser can make up their own mind as to whether they think they're genuine recommendations. People are fairly astute here (think of who is likely to be attracted to astronomy) and will usually see through a "set-up". I've also seen comments on some for sale threads that are pointing out "problems".

DT

Stardrifter_WA · #6 12-01-2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

If the potential purchaser doesn't understand your ad, you are less likely to make a sale - so, I agree that shorthand isn't advisable.

As to your other comment - it is an open forum, so anyone can comment on another's "for sale thread". I've had people make unsolicited comments on my thread - the potential purchaser can make up their own mind as to whether they think they're genuine recommendations. People are fairly astute here (think of who is likely to be attracted to astronomy) and will usually see through a "set-up". I've also seen comments on some for sale threads that are pointing out "problems".

DT

True that David, well said

mozzie (Peter) · #7 12-01-2012, 08:11 PM

well said ron,peter and david.....

all i can add is some items for sale iv'e or we have had the pleasure to use or look out and are only adding that it is an excellent item in excellent condition..and letting any possible buyers know of this !!!!!!!!!!

Bassnut (Fred) · #8 12-01-2012, 08:34 PM

Well said ron,Peter,David,Peter ......
Geez, are you over 16?.

Finite (John) · #9 12-01-2012, 08:43 PM

Now, I must say I was a novice in internet forum etiquette when I asked to join up with you ISS guys, (and still am really) and didnt really know to give an introduction of themselves like i've seen others do. But I must say even I thought HRT's message was a little odd, a bit confrontational. But then, HRT joined 5 to 6 yrs ago, so maybe feels he has known the members long enough to be frank.

Looking through the ads and other posts in my limited time here, I've seen nothing but informed and fair comment, interlaced with some brilliantly funny and throughly entertaining dialogue. I think you can trust what is said, these folk aren't the cross section of society you might find dwelling on a boy racer forum.

Is there a particular advert that has got your goat? Or a bad experience in trying to buy something from another member? I'm just trying to guage what your query is based in.

Stardrifter_WA · #10 12-01-2012, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finite

Now, I must say I was a novice in internet forum etiquette when I asked to join up with you ISS guys, (and still am really) and didnt really know to give an introduction of themselves like i've seen others do. But I must say even I thought HRT's message was a little odd, a bit confrontational. But then, HRT joined 5 to 6 yrs ago, so maybe feels he has known the members long enough to be frank.

Looking through the ads and other posts in my limited time here, I've seen nothing but informed and fair comment, interlaced with some brilliantly funny and throughly entertaining dialogue. I think you can trust what is said, these folk aren't the cross section of society you might find dwelling on a boy racer forum.

Is there a particular advert that has got your goat? Or a bad experience in trying to buy something from another member? I'm just trying to guage what your query is based in.

Frankly, I think HRT's comments were fairly innocuous anyway and they were fair and valid comments regardless. After all, he stated he was new and didn't want to offend anyone.

Sometimes with the written word within this forum you are not totally able to express ones mood correctly, in the same manner as you do directly. You simply cannot observe body language. HRT's comments may have come across somewhat differently in person. The emoticons go someway to alleviate this problem, but not entirely.

Just because someone may not fully know how to use this site (I certainly don't) he or she shouldn't be condemned, because they may come across as offensive, for they may not be. I sometimes struggle with how to put things without it sounding offensive, even with using the emoticons.

HRT, I think you comments were valid and that shouldn't put you off making further observations. I defend your right to your comments and didn't in any way find them offensive, even if I didn't agree with them. After all, many don't necessarily agree with all mine, nor would I expect them too.

As long as nobody uses abusive or offensive language, all comments should be grateful received, even if you don't agree with them. You can always comment

iceman (Mike) · #11 12-01-2012, 09:03 PM

I think it's a fair point to ask that people be more descriptive in their ads. I think all too frequently, people think that *everyone* understands the acronyms etc. It's part of the "guidelines" of IceTrade that people be fully descriptive in their ads. But of course it's a guideline, we don't enforce it.

People are generally doing a disservice to themselves if they're not descriptive, with pictures, because they'll be putting off a segment of their potential buyers.

But I don't think it's a fair call to think that any "praise" from other members is a setup. Actually I see it as helping people who are not sure if it's a good deal.
I think out of the 10,000+ items that have been sold through IceTrade, I've only seen 'false recommendations' a few times.

Also, being a member since 2006 you can hardly be classified "as new here"

alistairsam · #12 12-01-2012, 09:51 PM

Hi,

whilst it is ideal for ads to be descriptive, there is nothing wrong in asking details or clarification on something you don't understand or is not clear.

people usually write descriptions as they perceive it. so its hard to enforce guidelines on descriptions and acronyms.

my point is the seller should be free to write as little or much details as they see fit, after all that would directly impact their sale, so its in their interest to be descriptive, at the same time if something looks interesting but is unclear its simple enough to ask, there are people with varied levels of expertise here and a lot are beginners, so no one will judge your questions.

As for others soliciting sales, people here are quite honest and you can easily make out from a comment on whether its true or not, and if it is an expensive item, you could draw conclusions from pics or see it for yourself or PM the seller or contact them directly to get more details, that way it is unbiased.

this is a great forum and place to sell items and I've bought and sold a few things, never had any bad experiences. Not to say there can't be, but its unlikely.

again, its impossible for the moderators here or in any forum to enforce how a seller should write. just ask for clarification, others will add comments to help you understand but are highly unlikely to bias a sale. stick to the sellers descriptions or comments and form your own opinion.

by saying another persons comment is always suspicious is a bit offensive to those who've sincerely commented with the intention of sharing their experiences or just felt like saying something.

tlgerdes (Trevor) · #13 13-01-2012, 08:32 AM

And whilst we are at it, with pictures, a little focus on the object, rather than the background, foreground, window, fingers etc would be really beneficial.

For an astronomy group who prides itself on clarity of seeing, I find it ironic that we can't get our pictures in focus for ads

TrevorW · #14 13-01-2012, 11:19 AM

Like setting the background something white should IMO be placed against a darker background likewise something dark against a lighter one and as Trevor said focusing also helps.

I found nothing fundamentally wrong with the posters comments

Barrykgerdes · #15 13-01-2012, 11:38 AM

I have two comments that don't apply only to ads.

The use of SMS language and acronyms in posts always annoys me. I am probably much older than most and many of these abrieviations change over a relatively short period and of course many are jargon based and mean different things to different groups. Just try googling some of the more common ones. Of course in my younger days I often used abrieviations and acronyms however many of the terms used today have totally different meanings and some of them are text that meant obscene comments in my day.

The other is on focus. It is very hard sometimes to get a good focus on close objects under inside lighting with auto focus on objects and then have a flash go off. I have had to photograph an object many times to get the picture to focus on what I want.

Barry

Stardrifter_WA · #16 13-01-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

And whilst we are at it, with pictures, a little focus on the object, rather than the background, foreground, window, fingers etc would be really beneficial.

For an astronomy group who prides itself on clarity of seeing, I find it ironic that we can't get our pictures in focus for ads

Fair enough point, but, not all of us spend our money on "normal" photographic equipment. I only have a very ordinary "happy snap" camera that isn't brilliant, so I cannot produce those "require" sharp images. Sorry!

mozzie (Peter) · #17 13-01-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Well said ron,Peter,David,Peter ......
Geez, are you over 16?.

hope so.....

vanwonky (Dave) · #18 13-01-2012, 12:47 PM

Hi Hedley,
Yes I know your name because I looked at your other posts. Wasn't that hard with only two, but you don't seem like the demon (or 16 year old) you've been made out to be by some. I think your post could have been worded just a little differently and you would of had a completely different reaction here. Actually you could nearly keep it the same and learn the not so subtle art of using smiley emoticons as mentioned - (insert one here). I actually hate them and the overuse of them but it does help in not being misconstrued to a degree. Of course they also can be used as an excuse to say some nasty stuff.

I nevertheless agree with all your points. Some of these guys have obviously known each other for years either personally or through the forum and are comfortable with each other and have mutual trust. To a newbie it can seem a little weird having the "a great item" comment in their from another. And yes, acronyms suck and assumed knowledge sucks but it is a way to learn when you go scouring the net for the meaning. Agreed though, it is not the best for the direct and quick sale of the item.

Don't get me started on blurry photos! Whoops forgot the smiley there.

A good idea is to have a look at the sellers previous posts. I have on a couple of occasions now seen the "new, unused, unwanted present" being talked about in use. Sure it "could" have been a double and was unwanted but who knows - (smiley). Having said that I have bought 5 items so far all with excellent results.

Anyway hope all this hasn't scared you off for another 5 years. It is a great forum with some odd but possibly lovable characters

.

Cheers
Dave

Moon (James) · #19 13-01-2012, 02:55 PM

5 years between posts, and then this?
I call troll. Master troll.

Stardrifter_WA · #20 13-01-2012, 04:30 PM

Interesting that we haven't heard from HRT

Don't give up HRT

I hope this hasn't put you off, as that would be tragic.

Just because some don't agree with your comments, I defend your right to make them, as they are valid comments anyway, as I have said before.

Hey guys and gals, HRT may be a bit shy and this site can be daunting for a newcomer. I was on this site for sometime before I felt comfortable enough to ask questions and make comments; and I am by no means shy!

SO give HRT a fair go.

After all, we all have different opinions and ideas and this is what makes this site so exciting.