14th century timepiece in Qld Shed

glenc (Glen) · #1 09-11-2011, 03:26 PM

14th century timepiece unearthed in Qld farm shed
An extremely rare 14th-century time-keeping device found in a bag of old farm spare parts in a Queensland shed could fetch up to $300,000 at auction in London next month. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-0...easure/3654974

PCH (Paul) · #2 09-11-2011, 04:34 PM

Wow, that is some find. And something of a mystery too I'd imagine - how it ended up down-under I mean. Great post Glen - thanks

gary · #3 09-11-2011, 06:47 PM

Thanks Glen,

Interesting story and the last place you would expect to find such an old European
instrument.

Making astronomical computers ourselves I am always fascinated to look at the
display cases containing astrolabes and similar devices in museums around the world.

glenc (Glen) · #4 09-11-2011, 06:59 PM

I just read a book called "Longitude" so I found the Qld story interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_%28book%29

CraigS · #5 09-11-2011, 07:27 PM

Hi Glen;

This is just an incredible find, eh?

Your post really fired up my imagiination so I went looking for some information on what was going on in England around 1396 ...

I'm amazed ... Irish rebellions, the first abdication from the English throne, truces with France to end the 100 years war, lots of political back-stabbings, etc. It seems Richard II was more interested in arts, jewellery, rich-textiles and, (low and behold), metal-work.

I'm finding it a little difficult to come up with what was going on in Astronomy at that time ... perhaps others might be able to fill in some of the details ?

John Harrison is one of my historical heroes ! Such tenacity !

Thanks for a very interesting post !

Cheers

Mliss (Mel) · #6 10-11-2011, 12:32 AM

A wonderful post indeed Glen, thank you so much for sharing this.

What an amazing story, both in finding this piece and the history behind it's origins.

Being one of my favorite periods, I doubt my strength in making the decision to part with something so wonderfully old even given the appraised value. I truely hope this doesn't end up in someones private collection.

On a personal note, you have given me just what a needed to pick up where i left off a few years back on my ancestry.

thanks Glen!!

Octane (Humayun) · #7 10-11-2011, 01:41 AM

That is incredible. What an amazing relic.

Something about that story makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

I can only imagine what it'd be like to come across something so precious and valuable from our distant past.

What else lies out there waiting to be discovered?

H

glenc (Glen) · #8 10-11-2011, 01:56 AM

The book "Longitude" also talks about Cloudesley Shovell.
"When returning with the fleet to England after the campaign to Toulon, Shovell's ship, HMS Association, at 8 pm on 22 October (November 2, by the modern calendar) 1707, struck on the rocks near the Isles of Scilly along with several other ships, and was seen by those on board HMS St George to go down in three or four minutes' time, not a soul being saved of 800 men that were on board. With four large ships (HMS Association, HMS Eagle, HMS Romney and HMS Firebrand) and nearly 2,000 sailors lost that night, the Scilly naval disaster was one of the greatest maritime disasters in British history. It was later determined that the main cause of the disaster was the navigators' inability to accurately calculate their longitude."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudesley_Shovell

GrampianStars (Rob) · #9 10-11-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCH

Wow, that is some find. And something of a mystery too I'd imagine - how it ended up down-under I mean. Great post Glen - thanks

Doc Brown and Marty McFly time travels in 1985!
have a lot to answer for.....

SkyViking (Rolf) · #10 10-11-2011, 08:36 AM

Amazing story! What a great find. I don't think I would part with it either

hotspur (Chris) · #11 10-11-2011, 08:53 AM

This is the ultimate collectors story-just so wonderful in every aspect!

This is really is an amazing instrument-the only thing more amazing is this story! I love scrumaging around old sheds,you jut never know what you might find!

Be great to see it in the Queensland Museum.Although reading the story-it will likely to in up in the N.H somewhere.

Brundah1 (David) · #12 10-11-2011, 09:35 AM

Glen,

I admire your broad scientific interests and for sharing your finds with us.

This is very interesting article. What an amazing story about this rare find, apart from the obvious salesmanship, the auction will attract huge interest.

Yes "Longitude" is a great read for anyone interested in Time, Navigation and the Universe. My wife gave me "Longitude" for Christmas 1997, it changed my perspective on the fundamental linkage between these three subjects. At the time I had just completed my Boeing 777 training, that book put a new perspective on the significance of high precision time bases in every aspect of this amazing machine and its manufacture.

Every time you use a GPS, talk on a mobile phone, look at your quartz timepiece, or just turn on your old PC; remember John Harrison's life-log passion played a vital role in all our time based technologies.

David

CraigS · #13 10-11-2011, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenc

The book "Longitude" also talks about Cloudesley Shovell.
"When returning with the fleet to England after the campaign to Toulon, Shovell's ship, HMS Association, at 8 pm on 22 October (November 2, by the modern calendar) 1707, struck on the rocks near the Isles of Scilly along with several other ships, and was seen by those on board HMS St George to go down in three or four minutes' time, not a soul being saved of 800 men that were on board. With four large ships (HMS Association, HMS Eagle, HMS Romney and HMS Firebrand) and nearly 2,000 sailors lost that night, the Scilly naval disaster was one of the greatest maritime disasters in British history. It was later determined that the main cause of the disaster was the navigators' inability to accurately calculate their longitude."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudesley_Shovell

Yep .. amazing !
The bureaucracy Harrison was confronted with when he attempted to show he'd solved the longitude problem, seemed to have conveniently completely forgotten the loss of these 2,000 souls !
It seems that preserving scientific intellectual arrogance of the day was more important to the committee than solving the problem. Had Harrison been educated in Astronomy, he may have had a better chance. Alas, such education was extremely limited to the very wealthy in those days.

The other thing I notice is that this timekeeping artefact was made 311 years before the above naval disaster ! It was probably the progenitor of the astronomical/mathematical bias of the 'Longitude' committee .. the bane of Harrison's life!

Thank goodness in modern times, we can appreciate the contribution precision engineering can make towards advancing science!

Awesome stuff !

Cheers

glenc (Glen) · #14 10-11-2011, 10:44 AM

Nevil Maskelyne wanted to claim the longitude prize money for himself. He was on the Board of Longitude committee that awarded the money so there was a classic conflict of interest. Chronometer maker Harrison had to appeal to the King and was given the money by Parliament not the Board of Longitude. " The results of the voyage were made public at a meeting of the Board of Longitude in early 1765, where it was disclosed that Harrison's chronometer had produced Bridgetown's longitude with an error of less than ten miles after a sea voyage of more than 5,000 miles. Maskelyne's method on the other hand showed an error of 30 miles." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevil_Maskelyne

Zaps · #15 10-11-2011, 05:24 PM

The movie of the book starring Jeremy Irons and Michael Gambon is simply outstanding and a must see.

Ric · #16 10-11-2011, 05:34 PM

Thanks for the link Glen.

A fascinating article, still not sure how it ended up in Australia though.

glenc (Glen) · #17 15-12-2011, 01:54 AM

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-1...o-sell/3731628
Does it give the height of the Sun?