what to buy?

the_red85 · #1 11-11-2011, 05:50 PM

Hi all i am looking to buy my first scope. i would like it to be able to be not too heavy, a goto would be preferred and possibly do astro-photography in the future.
budget is about $1k. but would spend a few hundred more to get the right one.
thanks

the_red85 · #2 11-11-2011, 05:56 PM

http://btow.com.au/Celestron_Nexstar...from_Australia

would this one be any good?

Atlantis69 (Simon) · #3 11-11-2011, 10:40 PM

Not great for astrophotography as it's an Alt-Az mount and not EQ, so your images will slowly rotate.

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #4 12-11-2011, 12:21 AM

Astro imaging is the purest form of a money pit outside of sailing known to man. $1000 is not going to get much in the way of an imaging kit unless you are keen on learning the joys of manual guiding.
On the other hand $1000 will buy a very nice Dob which will give years of viewing.
The little Go To scopes like the 6SE give OK views and you get the convenience of Go To, but you sacrifice aperture for convenience.

Malcolm

the_red85 · #5 12-11-2011, 07:53 AM

thanks for the replies. dented my hopes of getting an all-in-one. but oh well. i think ill head down the viewing side for now. then move into astro-photography.
cheers
any recommendations on which type is should purchase?

Poita (Peter) · #6 12-11-2011, 11:40 AM

There are some astro clubs in perth, absolutely get yourself to a viewing night first or you will burn your money. Take a look through some scoPes and see what floats your boat first, Or I can nearly guarantee you will have some severe buyers remorse before long.

For just over a grand and a half 2nd hand you might get a tracking mount and an ed80 and an old dslr and be able to do some wide field photography, but spend some time lookIng through other peoples gear first.

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #7 12-11-2011, 12:31 PM

IMHO, the best beginners scope is an 8" dob for the following reasons

- inexpensive, the Bintel version is $500
- easy to use and setup
- decent aperture while still being portable
- collimation is easy, and works OK if not perfectly collimated
- no electronics or motors to go wrong
- can later on be mounted on an EQ mount for a very basic imaging scope

koputai (Jason) · #8 12-11-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poita

you might get a tracking mount and an ed80 and .....

But this will be totally useless for visual. The ED80, in fact most refractors are pretty useless for general visual use due to their small aperture.

I'd agree with Malcolm. The best first scope is an 8 inch Dobsonian. They are very easy to use, easy to transport, easy to set up, and have a decent aperture so your visual quality will be much better.

For under $1000 you can have a brand new 8 inch Dob, a colimator, and a couple of good eyepieces.

Cheap option totalling $560:
8" Dob $500
Basic colimator $60
Two average eyepieces that come with the Dob.

Excellent option totalling $990:
8" Dob $500
Glatter laser colimator $190
Televue Nagler 13mm Type 6 eyepiece $300

Cheers,
Jason.

Poita (Peter) · #9 12-11-2011, 03:28 PM

That's the thing, on that budget you need to choose between visual or photography really. I personally think an 8" dob is just as useless for visual, and would go to a 12" or stick to a small refractor and do some photography. That's why he needs to go look through some scopes, for visual use I find 12" to be the starting point and an 8" somewhat underwhelming. Another person will find an 8" spectacular. Others find almost all visual underwhelming and go for mallincams or photography. Don't spend any money yet, go to a star party, look at some scopes, make some friends and try to buy whatever suits you 2nd hand if you can, it will often come with many extras, advice and sometimes a new friend.

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #10 12-11-2011, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barx1963

Astro imaging is the purest form of a money pit outside of sailing known to man. $1000 is not going to get much in the way of an imaging kit unless you are keen on learning the joys of manual guiding.
On the other hand $1000 will buy a very nice Dob which will give years of viewing.
The little Go To scopes like the 6SE give OK views and you get the convenience of Go To, but you sacrifice aperture for convenience.

Malcolm

I really beg to dis agree that astrophotography is a money pit! take a quick look at cars for a start.... what hobby can you resell your equipment for 80% of your purchase. sometimes more!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by koputai

But this will be totally useless for visual. The ED80, in fact most refractors are pretty useless for general visual use due to their small aperture.

I'd agree with Malcolm. The best first scope is an 8 inch Dobsonian. They are very easy to use, easy to transport, easy to set up, and have a decent aperture so your visual quality will be much better.

For under $1000 you can have a brand new 8 inch Dob, a colimator, and a couple of good eyepieces.

Cheap option totalling $560:
8" Dob $500
Basic colimator $60
Two average eyepieces that come with the Dob.

Excellent option totalling $990:
8" Dob $500
Glatter laser colimator $190
Televue Nagler 13mm Type 6 eyepiece $300

Cheers,
Jason.

Glatter laser, any laser in that case is dangerous because your relying that its properly set up. plus it uses batteries.. for another 40 fun tokens you can have passive and in my honest opinion a far better setup with a proper cheshire and auto collimators...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poita

That's the thing, on that budget you need to choose between visual or photography really. I personally think an 8" dob is just as useless for visual, and would go to a 12" or stick to a small refractor and do some photography. That's why he needs to go look through some scopes, for visual use I find 12" to be the starting point and an 8" somewhat underwhelming. Another person will find an 8" spectacular. Others find almost all visual underwhelming and go for mallincams or photography. Don't spend any money yet, go to a star party, look at some scopes, make some friends and try to buy whatever suits you 2nd hand if you can, it will often come with many extras, advice and sometimes a new friend.

Peter i think thats rubbish a 8" scope is fine for a beginner! easy to move around and gives great views! it wasn't that far off my 10" dob. Once you get used to what you have you can sell it off or keep it as a nice light astrophotography rig which is devistatingly better than a small refractor! Plus its only in the last 5 years that a 8" dob became a moderate scope and a 12" became affordable....... Sometimes bigger isn't better! and if you go for a 12" your going to have to pump out for a minimum of a G11 possibly bigger mount just to start your astrophotography journey.

Poita (Peter) · #11 12-11-2011, 05:05 PM

I agree, getting a big dob now means big $$ for a mount later, and I wouldn't go a big dob if I was planning on going to photography later.

He posted in the astrophotography section, so I assumed that was his aim, on that budget it means a small mount and a small refractor and a one shot colour camera, and you can get great results. Stretch to an ED100 and this is possible
http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/W20001-1.jpg
But that may not be for him, he needs to go look through some actual gear and decide whether to jump into photography now at the low end or go visual.

However for visual, I agree from 8" to 10" there is little difference, go to 12 though and averted viewing starts to become direct viewing, I personally wouldn't bother with an 8" for visual anymore with prices so low. But he is starting out, we can't know if he will find an 8" disappointing or mind blowing, hence my advice to look before buying. Some people's expectations of the view through the eyepiece are higher than others.

Poita (Peter) · #12 12-11-2011, 05:23 PM

I sound like a contrary bugger, but I get the feeling sometimes that we may as well rename "Beginners start here" to "Just buy an 8inch Dob"

But I don't think that is always the right answer for everyone, expectations and practicalities are different for everyone, and if you are not isolated then I reckon spending money before going to a club night and looking at some actual gear in action is nuts, no matter which way you jump.

the_red85 · #13 12-11-2011, 05:52 PM

thanks for your replies everyone. will take it all into consideration. but at the moment think ill try and find a few viewing nights to go to. then decide whether i go straight into astro-photography or just viewing side to start with. if anyone can point me in the right direction for a viewing night that would be much appreciated. location - WA. thanks

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #14 12-11-2011, 06:21 PM

well mate if there is some clear weather one evening and we can arrange before hand I can always bring my 10" EQ6 Dob mount and 90mm refractor along so you can physically see what a proper Astrophotography kit looks like not a beginners one so you can understand whats involved.

and because you live only 20 min up the road its all good.

Around our area there is another 2 guys that are running differnt astrophotography setups that Im always talking to so thatll help you along.

Brendan

koputai (Jason) · #15 12-11-2011, 06:32 PM

He did say in post #5 that he would go for a visual setup now, and go for AP later on.

The two of us who suggested 8" Dobs gave some reasonable and specific advantages for a beginner.

12" Dobs are NOT for a beginner, they are cumbersome if you can't put wheels on it and push it out on a hard level surface. They are much heavier, and require more storage space.

I know Dob's aren't the be all and end all in astronomy, but for ease of use they can't be beat. If it's easy to use and gives decent results, a beginner is much more likely to use it, and therefore enjoy and progress with astronomy. If they start out with something cumbersome or beginner unfriendly, they will soon give up.

Cheers,
Jason.

Poita (Peter) · #16 12-11-2011, 07:22 PM

I don't see a problem for a beginner with a 12" dob on a trolly if they have a garden shed or similar. By the same token an 8" dob is unwieldy if you live on a top floor apartment and no car.
Everyone will have their own considerations.

I'd definitely take Brendan up on his offer to take a gander at his setup, it is a great system and he hasn't broken the bank to get there.

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #17 12-11-2011, 07:28 PM

See... Universty student.!

koputai (Jason) · #18 12-11-2011, 07:48 PM

I do have both a 12" and 8" Dob (and a 10" SCT, and an ED80). The one that gets used most of the time, because it's easy to handle and use is the 8". The ED80 gets used to look at birds in the bush from my verandah, and the moon. It's useless visually for anything else.

Sorry, that's the last time I'll dare try and give a beginner my (what I thought might be helpful) opinion.

Peter.M · #19 12-11-2011, 08:02 PM

I am very much a beginner still, but reading these posts is funny. From what I have gathered when talking about dobs lets assume all from the same company, The larger the better. Obviously larger scopes mean heavier and more expensive. If you think you can store and manage the cumbersome 12 inch scope then it will undoubtably give you better views than an 8 inch.

The guy with the 12 inch scope is going to loathe the view from an 8 inch and the guy up the road from him with the 16 inch will tell you that the 12 inch is useless.

It all comes down to what you can afford, what fits in your shed/house, and if you are a bodybuilder or have a forklift handy.

Peter.M · #20 12-11-2011, 08:06 PM

If you were anything like me, you will have seen images on forums like this before you bought your scope and visual observations in beginner scopes will not satisfy you because a camera can capture something in 10 minutes that looks like bugger all in the eyepiece. For me planets look nice and its good to see them with your eyes. As far as DSO observing goes I prefer to take a photo and view it on my computer than look at what seems to be a cloud that dosent move in the eyepiece.