Space-what is it?

[Karls48 (Karl)]

It is not my intension to create any heated discussions about this subject. I simply ask the question about something that bothers me.
Space – what is it? It seems to be one of the fundamental entities of reality we experience. We, and our surroundings – indeed the whole Universe is made of it. Yet, as far I can gather, we got no clue as what it is.
I’m aware that there exists a mathematical description of “space”. Space \time is one of those constructs. I do have a problem with this. To put it simply – can anyone mathematically describe Teddy Bear., light brown in color, sitting in the armchair and watching TV? Stupid question? Well may be. Comparing to vastness and complexity of universe, it should be easy to solve. I just want to highlight usefulness of mathematics to describe reality.
It is said that space has been CREATED during Big Bang.. It is also said that it is expanding since BB. That seems imply that “space” has been created by conversion of some fundamental state of mater or energy to an other state.
What happen when a Black Hole swallows the star? The mater is compressed by the gravity to singularity, but what does happen to the space that the star occupied and is partly made of? Is the space compressed to singularity as well or does the “space” kind of leak out to surrounding universe? If the space is swallow by BH is the total space in the Universe diminished?
As far I know there was not any practical experiment to manipulate space.

[CraigS]

The concept of space was easy to understand when it was described simply as a vacuum.

Then it was described as the absence of matter.

It was also described as 'black' .. as in the sense of it being devoid of colour, or light.

Then came theory, and with it ... mathematics to describe the laws of nature. The statement that: "the laws of nature are written in the language of mathematics", was properly made three hundred years ago … it is generally attributed to Galileo. This statement is now taken to be more 'true' than ever, in science.

Teddy bears can be described mathematically .. computers use mathematical algorithms to reproduce teddy bears, and animate them to give them life-like qualities, all the time. They then exist on TV as well as observing themselves on TV, from an armchair in a living room !

Black holes (BHs) haven't been directly observed. They are a concept derived directly from the physical laws which are themselves, described mathematically. They can also be indirectly observed by the absence of 'something' in space, as well as the presence of the bending of light, which appears to be a 'something'.

Karls48 appears to relate to BHs in his world as reality .. ie: they exist ... therefore the relationship of mathematics to a directly unobservable object, or a directly observable object, are as real to him as a teddy bear watching itself on TV.

Space has been described as 'nothingness' .. then came the Big Bang ... and space was one result.

Space has been described as the 'nothing' which exists between the 'something'. In BHs, gravity acting in the presence of a 'something', compresses the 'nothing'. BHs described by mathematics, must therefore be part of the 'something' which expels the 'nothing' back into space, which is also the 'nothing'.

Space grows to explain the unknown and undiscovered. It also shrinks whenever the unknown or undiscovered becomes known, and discovered.

I'm cool with all that .. and I hope this helps.

Cheers

[Zaps]

Originally Posted by Karls48

I simply ask the question about something that bothers me.

Most, if not all, of your questions have been answered near-definitively by the likes of Weinberg, et al. If you don't have access to books, at least spend some time browsing Wikipedia.

[renormalised (Carl)]

The Final Frontier.....

Just don't split your infinitives

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Karls48

It is not my intension to create any heated discussions about this subject. I simply ask the question about something that bothers me.
Space – what is it? It seems to be one of the fundamental entities of reality we experience. We, and our surroundings – indeed the whole Universe is made of it. Yet, as far I can gather, we got no clue as what it is.
I’m aware that there exists a mathematical description of “space”. Space \time is one of those constructs. I do have a problem with this. To put it simply – can anyone mathematically describe Teddy Bear., light brown in color, sitting in the armchair and watching TV? Stupid question? Well may be. Comparing to vastness and complexity of universe, it should be easy to solve. I just want to highlight usefulness of mathematics to describe reality.
It is said that space has been CREATED during Big Bang.. It is also said that it is expanding since BB. That seems imply that “space” has been created by conversion of some fundamental state of mater or energy to an other state.
What happen when a Black Hole swallows the star? The mater is compressed by the gravity to singularity, but what does happen to the space that the star occupied and is partly made of? Is the space compressed to singularity as well or does the “space” kind of leak out to surrounding universe? If the space is swallow by BH is the total space in the Universe diminished?
As far I know there was not any practical experiment to manipulate space.

Hi Karl.....you ask a question that in my view can only be answered with imagination... read all there is and you will appreciate the reason I hold that view.

As wonderful as our current knowledge may be there can be no doubt that the more one considers space the more perplexing its quantification becomes.

The story has not ended because various folk offer geometric descriptions as a simple method to explain a most complex normality.

Our mathematical descriptions deserve respect for they are sound and hard won so do not give in to the frustration that our descriptions feel inadequate.

If only our descriptions could attain the complexity that only imagination can produce there would be no problem but perhaps use both to gain a personal grasp is not unreasonable.

I have thought about the questions you raise I have read much of the material available and suggest space is the ultimate paradox where human experience tells us it is an absence of everything whereas simple consideration will suggest that space would seem to contain so much it is still beyond accurate description and maybe even beyond human imagination.

If we were to take some "empty space" from a region you consider very very empty in the Universe and ask what you may find, with in that section,, limiting yourself to that which our observations suggest may be reasonable ...what may we find???... when I imagine such it would seem impossible to fit everything in that may be there based on only what we know must be there...

Describing empty space seems a very complex matter in my view.


alex