Vettel wins Turkish Grand Prix

[astroron (Ron)]

Sebastian Vettel has won the Turkish F1 Grand Prix,one of the best F1 races I have watched in a loong time
Lots of overtaking and wheel to wheel racing
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/9479645.stm
Cheers

[Kal (Andrew)]

I also thought it was one of the best races I have ever watched! The combination of the high degradation tyres, KERS, and DRS all make for plenty of passes and great action!

[gary]

Hi Ron,

The ever increasing list of achievement statistics for Vettel this year is incredibly impressive.

There was one they mentioned that he had led for something like 80% of all laps
this year.

Mark Webber gave us a fabulous drive as well, starting on the dirty side of the grid
at P2 which he then had to claw back when he was overtaken by Nico Rosberg
and later when Alonso overtook him.

That turn 8 is something else. On Channel ONE on the Saturday night when they
televised the qualifying sessions, they showed a series of shots from the in-car
cameras for various cars as they rounded turn 8. Like many things in life, it
was telling you got what you paid for. The drivers with cars from the lower ranking
teams operating on smaller budgets would go around turn 8 fighting at the steering wheel
whereas cars like the RB7 could go around there nearly flat in 6th gear with
a change up to 7th on the exit with a much more stable steering wheel from the
pure grip, pulling something like 4.5 to 4.8 G's.

It was a great race and obviously the cameras can't show everything at once
but there were times where I was wishing the director would cut to more pertinent
battles that were going on. For example, when Alonso overtook Webber, I was
looking at the live timing screen from f1.com and you could see that Webber
was still within the 1 second DRS activation range right behind Alonso and you
could anticipate that the situation might reverse again in the DRS zone.
But, alas, the director would cut to something going on in, say, 9th position
and you would be left wondering what is going on with Alonso and Webber in
2nd and 3rd place until they showed the replay.

Once Webber overtook Alonso again, it would have been more interesting to see
the perspective from the cameras on the side of the track showing us how close
the two were, but instead the director cut to the front camera view from Mark's car.
You held your breath wondering whether a Ferrari would go flashing by any second.

Alonso did amazingly well for Ferrari given the troubled start to the season
for them. With Catalunya coming up next, the Spanish crowds will undoubtedly
urge him on like they always do. Speaking of directors, I remember
last year at Catalunya when Mark Webber was on his final lap on his way to
victory but the director instead chose to show us lots and lots of Alonso
on his way around in second place, undoubtedly to please Spanish audiences.

Video of Mark in the Red Bull simulator last year taking us around Catalunya -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3PsUJqaK5M

[The_bluester (Paul)]

I have not actually watched it yet, I have seen the results plastered everywhere though.

I did not watch last noght as I really, really dislike the commentary from ten, have hated it for years. When it was half an hour past the published time for the telecast to start and they were still just waffling on I went to bed. I hate the Australian commentary that badly that at the Aust GP weekend (I go every year) I ended up for half the race listening to FM commercial radio instead of the on track commentary!

Surely it is not just me who hates the Aust commentary? Does referring to a group of cars racing for position as a "Battle Pack" not get up anyone elses noses? Can you not stand to hear "Get the job done" "Could not get the job done" "Tried to get the job done" "Did not get the job done" "Pinched a brake" etc etc etc?

At one point at Albert park this year when even the radio was boring I doubled up with ear plugs and black noise earmuffs and sat there in blissful silence through a support race.


Hmmm, this turned into a bit of a rant didn't it? I miss Murray Walker! But the current BBC crop are OK.

[gary]

Originally Posted by The_bluester

I have not actually watched it yet, I have seen the results plastered everywhere though.

I did not watch last noght as I really, really dislike the commentary from ten, have hated it for years. When it was half an hour past the published time for the telecast to start and they were still just waffling on I went to bed.

Hi Paul,

Channel 10 also own the digital Channel ONE HD. If you have a digital TV, PVR or
set-top box, you might be able to receive it.

Last night Channel ONE broadcast the race live. However, the Channel 10 broadcast
was delayed by half an hour or so.

The Australian commentary team generally only speak during the pre-race
show, between commercial breaks to fill you in on what happened and then
after the race. Both Channel ONE/10 then cross to the BBC team which this
year is Martin Brundle and David Coulthard. Murray Walker was a wonderful
commentator but Brundle and Coulthard also bring with them a wealth of
experience. Both ex F1 drivers themselves, I find it nice when they
provide first hand accounts of what it actually feels like as a driver.

I also highly recommend signing up for the free account at the http://www.formula1.com/ web site.

This then gives one access to the Live Timing application -
http://www.formula1.com/live_timing/

On a laptop next to you when watching the race on television, it enables
you to see the relative time gaps between cars, sector times, fastest lap time,
when someone has pitted and so on plus you can see if something has
happened whilst the commercial breaks are on.

[astroron (Ron)]

Hi Gary, it was a cracker of a race
the director was showing I think Rosburg, car from in cr camera for quite a while and no one else was near him
I was shouting lets get back to the action and we missed some great overtaking,even though they did show a replay
It will be interesting to see what happens at Monarco GP as there wont be to many chances to use KERS or DFR in overtaking
Cheers

[gary]

Originally Posted by astroron

Hi Gary, it was a cracker of a race
the director was showing I think Rosburg, car from in cr camera for quite a while and no one else was near him
I was shouting lets get back to the action and we missed some great overtaking,even though they did show a replay

An absolute cracker of a race.

When the director cut away from the Alonso/Webber battle, I bet there were thousands
of Australian fans shouting at their TV's in English, thousands of Spanish Alonso fans
shouting at their TV's in Spanish and thousands more Italian Ferrari fans shouting at
their TV's in Italian.

It will be interesting to see what happens at Monarco GP as there wont be to many chances to use KERS or DFR in overtaking
Cheers

It will be really interesting. You effectively only have that straight at the starting
grid and the long right-hand curving run through the tunnel, so it will be interesting
where they place the DRS. As you well know, it is almost impossible to pass
anywhere in Monaco at the best of times.

I've never been fortunate enough to be at Monaco to witness the F1 but I
did walk around the streets that form the circuit many years ago.

Anyone who could drive an F1 car at racing speeds around Monaco for just one
lap without losing the front wing has to be, by definition, an incredibly skilled
driver. Anyone who can actually win the Monaco Grand Prix has to be, by
definition, one of the all-time greats.

For having won last year, Mark Webber will always be one of the all-time greats.
Jack Brabham won it in 1959. What a trophy to have on the mantlepiece!

[Old bloke (Max)]

From 'Old bloke'

Modern F1 is far too 'tricky', meaning, I liken it to kids playing a computer game. Let a 'driver' "drive" the damn car without all the gadgets on the 'steering wheel' which is all it should be. Sure modern F1 cars are extremely fast, but can any of you remember when you could actually 'see' a car for any more than 10 seconds before it was 1/2 a lap away, plus, 'they' actually passed another car without 'activating' DRS or KERS (that is what a 'driver' could actually do back then), did not have to stop 4 times for new tyres so making it confusing to see where Webber was coming without having to look away from the race and look down at the equally fast moving text (bottom screen)telling you who was doing what. Does pure speed do anything for me?---no!---give me realistic driver input like back in the 50's and 60's. What not only looks better, or gives you a fantastic thrill more---a WW11 Spitfire with its Merlin engine at full revs flashing down from 4000 feet, howling like a banshee, roaring past at 300mph, then pulling up and doing a roll at 100 feet, or say an FA18 Hornet doing the same?---give me the Spit any day. Its the same with a modern F1 car against say a Mercedes Benz W196 'Silver Arrow', Ferrari Super Squalo, Maserati F250, or how about a BRM V16 at full song! all vintage 54' to early 60's, they all sounded like cars!
No, I do not want to go all the way back to the 'old' days, but give a driver something to do instead of 'flicking paddles' and pushing buttons, bring back a 7 speed 'stick shift' and make a driver do some work.
I still like watching the spectical of modern F1 even though it can be confusing at times.
Go Mark webber for the championship! he is a true Aussie.

[astroron (Ron)]

Gary I had a bit of a brain fade,I could not think of the DRS even though I knew what I wanted to say
I would love to be at some of these circuts such as Monaco and Silverstone
Cheers

[gary]

Originally Posted by Old bloke

... give me realistic driver input like back in the 50's and 60's.

Hi Max,

Welcome to IceInSpace!

For a blast from the not so distant past, a great DVD to watch is the 1966
blockbuster movie shot in 70mm wide-screen Cinerama by director
John Frankenheimer, "Grand Prix".

Here is the Monza sequence, back in the days when they had the curved banking -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO4PifwXyiw

[gary]

Originally Posted by astroron

Gary I had a bit of a brain fade,I could not think of the DRS even though I knew what I wanted to say

Hi Ron,

Don't worry. We knew exactly what you meant from the context.

Rest assured it is not brain fade but a common case of TMA - Too Many Acronyms!

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by gary

Hi Max,

Welcome to IceInSpace!

For a blast from the not so distant past, a great DVD to watch is the 1966
blockbuster movie shot in 70mm wide-screen Cinerama by director
John Frankenheimer, "Grand Prix".

Here is the Monza sequence, back in the days when they had the curved banking -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO4PifwXyiw

Gary I wonder if youcan get "Grand Prix" on DVD
It was a great movie

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by Old bloke

From 'Old bloke'

Modern F1 is far too 'tricky', meaning, I liken it to kids playing a computer game. Let a 'driver' "drive" the damn car without all the gadgets on the 'steering wheel' which is all it should be. Sure modern F1 cars are extremely fast, but can any of you remember when you could actually 'see' a car for any more than 10 seconds before it was 1/2 a lap away, plus, 'they' actually passed another car without 'activating' DRS or KERS (that is what a 'driver' could actually do back then), did not have to stop 4 times for new tyres so making it confusing to see where Webber was coming without having to look away from the race and look down at the equally fast moving text (bottom screen)telling you who was doing what. Does pure speed do anything for me?---no!---give me realistic driver input like back in the 50's and 60's. What not only looks better, or gives you a fantastic thrill more---a WW11 Spitfire with its Merlin engine at full revs flashing down from 4000 feet, howling like a banshee, roaring past at 300mph, then pulling up and doing a roll at 100 feet, or say an FA18 Hornet doing the same?---give me the Spit any day. Its the same with a modern F1 car against say a Mercedes Benz W196 'Silver Arrow', Ferrari Super Squalo, Maserati F250, or how about a BRM V16 at full song! all vintage 54' to early 60's, they all sounded like cars!
No, I do not want to go all the way back to the 'old' days, but give a driver something to do instead of 'flicking paddles' and pushing buttons, bring back a 7 speed 'stick shift' and make a driver do some work.
I still like watching the spectical of modern F1 even though it can be confusing at times.
Go Mark webber for the championship! he is a true Aussie.

Hi Max and aboard
it is great to have another F1 and astronomy Buff joining our community
Cheers

[gary]

Originally Posted by astroron

Gary I wonder if youcan get "Grand Prix" on DVD
It was a great movie

Hi Ron,

Indeed you can. I have a copy I bought here in Australia about three years
ago when it was released. It is a two disk set and the print was beautifully restored.

JB Hi Fi here in Australia have it online, but check availability -
http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/dvd/d...edition/259205

As you will recollect, back in 1966 when you went to the movies, there was
an "Intermission" for you to go and buy a drink, some Jaffa's and a ChocTop.
The DVD includes the "Intermission" break and the overture sequences they would
play in the minutes before the curtain would open. Wonderful score by Maurice
Jarre, the same composer as for Lawrence of Arabia -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2uT...eature=related

I vividly remember seeing the movie in the city back in 1966 on that fabulous
wide Cinerama screen. The curtain would open, and open and open
and so the screen took up your whole peripheral vision. When it opened and that MGM
lion roared, you knew you were in for a treat.

Frankenheimer at times makes use of the 70mm real-estate with split screen
photography. There is a wonderful opening credit sequence filmed
by a very famous graphic artist by the name of Saul Bass. It is a piece of
art in itself. Saul Bass use to create many of the opening credit sequences
for Hitchcock films. You can view it here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cADL_gjDim4

The actors, including James Garner, did their own driving. No CGI. Try that today!

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by gary

Hi Ron,

Indeed you can. I have a copy I bought here in Australia about three years
ago when it was released. It is a two disk set and the print was beautifully restored.

JB Hi Fi here in Australia have it online, but check availability -
http://www.jbhifionline.com.au/dvd/d...edition/259205

As you will recollect, back in 1966 when you went to the movies, there was
an "Intermission" for you to go and buy a drink, some Jaffa's and a ChocTop.
The DVD includes the "Intermission" break and the overture sequences they would
play in the minutes before the curtain would open. Wonderful score by Maurice
Jarre, the same composer as for Lawrence of Arabia -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2uT...eature=related

I vividly remember seeing the movie in the city back in 1966 on that fabulous
wide Cinerama screen. The curtain would open, and open and open
and so the screen took up your whole peripheral vision. When it opened and that MGM
lion roared, you knew you were in for a treat.

Frankenheimer at times makes use of the 70mm real-estate with split screen
photography. There is a wonderful opening credit sequence filmed
by a very famous graphic artist by the name of Saul Bass. It is a piece of
art in itself. Saul Bass use to create many of the opening credit sequences
for Hitchcock films. You can view it here -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cADL_gjDim4

The actors, including James Garner, did their own driving. No CGI. Try that today!

Thanks Gary,I have bought myself a 42"HD Tv and Blu Ray player so it would be fantastic on the big screen
I am also a big fan of Lawrence of Arabia,It is one of my all time Favourite Movies,I play it at least three times a year
Next time I am at JBHIFI I will see if I can get it

Cheers

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

Can't add much except that Turkey is one of the more interesting tracks and it rewarded us last night. I'm a McLaren booster from way back, but I can't help but be awed by Vettel. Nothing seems to phase him.

What I can't get my head 'round though is why we need a full-screen shot of the pit-stops when there's proper action on the track.
OK, explosions are very photogenic, but I can't remember the last one and watching guys change wheels while there's biffo on the circuit makes no sense.
Most stops deserve a screen-in-screen at best. If something happens, the producer can always cut to it.
The Australian GP is particularly bad for this as is Hungary, Belgium and Austria.

OK. Whinge over.
Looking forward to the rest of the season, especially if Hammers gets his finger out!

[The_bluester (Paul)]

Originally Posted by gary

Hi Paul,

Channel 10 also own the digital Channel ONE HD. If you have a digital TV, PVR or
set-top box, you might be able to receive it.

Last night Channel ONE broadcast the race live. However, the Channel 10 broadcast
was delayed by half an hour or so.

Yeah, we watch/record it from ONE HD, I class that as Ten. The full One/Ten commentary I was talking about was actually at the track side at Albert Park this year. I was very disappointed with that as other years they have gone to the BBC commentary on race start like they normally do for the overseas races. You can hire a small TV receiver type thingo at the GP that gives you access to various video feeds at will, all of the publically available radio feeds plus the BBC commentary. I dislike the ONE/Ten commentary enough to pay the $200 odd to hire one for the weekend next year.

I don't mean to hang it on the current BBC commentary team as they are pretty good, but I do miss the muddy talker, no one has matched the passion and enthusiasm that Murray had for the sport and I doubt we will see another commentator like him! My commentary gripe is with ONE/Ten as they treat it like a V8 supercar telecast and that has been jazzed up and dumbed down so far that I see red after about ten minutes. Particulaly when they don't provide any insight, they simply tell you what you just saw on the screen!

Anyway, hopefully will sit down in a few minutes and watch the race.

[KenNo2658 (Ken)]

At least the weather was kind to me that night! I didn't need to choose between the race or the scope! I think the race would have come in second!
Ken

[astroron (Ron)]

Read Martin Brundle's article , what do you think ,is he right
Here
Cheers

[Old bloke (Max)]

Thank you Gary and Ron for replying to me, I got onto the u tube bit (1st time ever!) and,wow!!, what a wonderful world, now, can any of the apparent (old) rev heads tell me if I can get a copy of any sort of the 54' movie staring Kirk Douglas and Bella Darvi, called---"The Racers"---also, Steve McQueen in, 'Mille Miglia', I last saw The Racers about 40 years ago, or so it would seem, and MM maybe 15 to 20 years ago.
I have lots of stories to tell from around 53' at Mt Druitt onwards, went to the 56' Olympic AGP with the ARDC in a bus at 16 years old, 1/4 mile timing at Bathurst in 56' Ern Seeliger in the Tornade missed me by 6" at 160mph, did the timing from up on the bank amongst the trees after that. Knew all the drivers both local and internationals, in Moss's pit crew at 'The Farm' in 62', organised a beaut party for Jimmy Clark at Fairfield RSL in maybe 63' after his win at 'The farm' Yep, lots of stories and all true.
As for astronomy, well, apart from a crook back, I am waiting on a mate to help me sort my new Celestron Nexstar 6", if I dont get it sorted soon, its divorce courts my wife reckons.

Max