New DELOS eyepiece line from TELEVUE

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi all,

Televue has announced a new short focal length, long eye relief eyepiece line called DELOS. These feature 20mm of eye relief and a 72 deg AFOV. I have no doubt they will be excellent performers as they evolved from the ETHOS line which improved some of the weaknesses which I felt existed in other Televue designs. The most notable being colour fidelity. At present only a 6mm and 10mm are available but I would think some other focal lengths will appear in coming months.

http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3_page.asp?id=183

http://www.telescopes.com/telescope-...eeyepieces.cfm

Cheers,
John B

[DavidTrap (David)]

So that's why they were flogging the Radian eyepieces recently...

DT

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

I bet they will have them at NEAF...Hurray!

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Nice, was wondering what they would replace the Radians with.

OMG look at the price!!!!!. Just buy a Nagler t6 instead if you can handle the lesser eye relief.

[casstony]

I don't like the eye relief on the Ethos or most of the Naglers; the Delos looks close to my perfect eyepiece along with the short focal length XW's. The Delos might even displace the 14 & 21 Denks.

[anj026]

This is exciting news. I am hoping for a 12mm and maybe a 4 or 4.5mm.

Andy

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

I shall be the dark matter that puts the brakes on.

I honestly can't see what niche they are trying to fill.
Unless they a manifestlly better than the offerings from Pentax, Vixen, ES or TMB, at these lengths, I don't see the point.
The Radian line was surpassed ages ago (fincky eye position, heavy, yellow colour casts) by other makers and it seems they are playing catch-up here.
I'll pass I think.
NOT giving up my Pans or Naglers though!

[koputai (Jason)]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

I honestly can't see what niche they are trying to fill.

My thoughts exactly, though the Americans will buy them by the bucketload as they are ridiculously parochial. I wouldn't put the TMB's in there with any of the others though, absolute rubbish eyepieces IMOIIO.

TV already have Naglers, Ethos, Radians, and Plossl's in this focal range. Sure the Radians will go, but why have four types in the same focal range? All they have over the T6 Nag is eye relief, but with 10 degrees less FOV, and a heap more weight. All they have over the Ethos is 5mm of eye relief, but they weigh the same and have 30 degrees less field of view.

I guess they are really just trying to bring new product to market to keep their market share. In reality what can they add to their current lineup that won't be similar to something else they already do?

Cheers,
Jason.

[rmcconachy]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

I honestly can't see what niche they are trying to fill. Unless they a manifestlly better than the offerings from Pentax, Vixen, ES or TMB, at these lengths, I don't see the point...

I'd say the target niche is people like me. Wearing spectacles, I find any eyepiece with less than 17mm of eye relief annoying to use and I prefer 20mm of eye relief. That means that the Naglers (other than the Type 4 and very long focal length ones) and the whole Ethos series don't really work for me. The extra eye relief offered by Radians, the new Delos and other long eye relief oculars (from Pentax, Vixen, etc) is the difference between no sale and a possible sale. Sure, I'll look through an Ethos occasionally (I even bought an ES 100° 14mm ocular for an extended trial) and like it for a while but I can't quite come to grips with using it regularly.

While I like the Radian series I prefer the Pentax offerings (mainly the XL and XW series) in focal lengths <=10mm. This isn't because of the Radian's slightly warm tone (I think the whole "coffee" thing is way over done) but rather the extra apparent field of view (AFOV) and a feeling of extra comfort that I cannot put my finger on. The more offerings that enter the long eye relief, wide AFOV market the happier I will be. Remembering that the population of `four eyes' star gazers is growing as our average age increases, I am not surprised that increased eye relief is being seen as desirable by more customers. I have tried work arounds like the TV Dioptrix and while it works I don't like it as a solution (too much swapping and fiddling).

These eyepiece won't appeal to everybody but if they are as good as the Pentax XW series then I think they will find a good niche market.

Clear skies!

[casstony]

They're trying to fill the niche occupied by the Pentax XW's; the XW's are quite different from any of Televues previous offerings and have been very successful competitors.

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

r-mac,
There are loads (OK, maybe not loads) of other EPs in this FL/FoV range that offer long eye relief for 'squints' like you and me - I've had to wear glasses since last year, though I tend not to wear them when observing.

As Jason points out, if you're a Televue Tragic and must have that silver sticker, then the T4 Naglers and Ethosesessess are already there. (He's dead wrong about TMBs tho'. IMHO of course. )

EPS are a pretty personal choice and what works for one person in one scope might not work for another.
Just can't see the logic behind jumping into a 'mature' market.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

They will sell purely because they have Green writing on them

[rmcconachy]

Peter, you are absolutely correct about this being a mature market. I've got a Nagler (Type 4) 17mm eyepiece, a pair of Denkmeier 21mm oculars and some Pentax glass in addition to my Radians. Other options include the Nikon NAV SW series, the Vixen LV and LVW oculars (along with the Hyperion and Stratus knock-offs of the latter), the Long Perng `Long Eye Relief' eyepieces and no doubt others that I am forgetting. Then you could add the idea of using a long focal length plossl with a barlow lens (I did this for years and it works well until you become besotted by eyepiece designs offering a larger AFOV). The Ethos doesn't really work for me, 15mm of eye relief is not quite enough. For the same reason I cull the TMB Planetary series which never supplied the amount of eye relief Tom originally suggested (he claimed them to be Radian like before they shipped).

I guess if you cannot create a new market (like the Ethos did) then the next best thing is to introduce a winning product into a mature market. We shall see how well Tele Vue has managed this idea when we get to use the new eyepieces. Like Ken and others have said, I am sure that the green lettering will not hurt sales. "EPS are a pretty personal choice" is perhaps the best short summation of all.

Clear skies!

[mozzie (Peter)]

i love my naglers there perfect for me!!!!!!!! nice fov and eye relief....

[gb_astro]

For eyepieces this size a 2" skirt would of been nice.

gb.

[Fox]

Originally Posted by casstony

They're trying to fill the niche occupied by the Pentax XW's; the XW's are quite different from any of Televues previous offerings and have been very successful competitors.

I agree with this, I think there are gaps in the (very) high quality 70 deg FOV (and 20mm eye relief) focal lengths. I'd love to see 13-14mm and 20mm (70 deg) 1.25 inch eyepieces from Televue to compete with the Pentax XW's. With the 13-14mm focal length in particular, there are few to choose from. There is Pentax, Vixen and Denk - and even then the XW is limited to select scopes, its field curvature is too much in my f/5 scopes.

I'm really keen to see what the reviews are like for this new range. If the Bintel price of $339 is typical for the DELOS 6 and 10mm, then I hope TV brings out a 13 and 20mm. I believe at one point the Pentax's were selling for close to $800 at one Australian retailer a few years ago! For those who can afford them, the Pentax XW's are killer EP's at 10, 7 and 5mm - but with the 14 and 20mm they don't suit everybody and leave a real gap for competition in terms of high quality, flat field and price.

Fox

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

I shall be the dark matter that puts the brakes on.

I honestly can't see what niche they are trying to fill.
Unless they a manifestlly better than the offerings from Pentax, Vixen, ES or TMB, at these lengths, I don't see the point.
The Radian line was surpassed ages ago (fincky eye position, heavy, yellow colour casts) by other makers and it seems they are playing catch-up here.
I'll pass I think.
NOT giving up my Pans or Naglers though!

That niche they are trying to fill is a high quality long eye relief ~ 70 deg AFOV eyepiece, where a number of other manufacturers currently have "all" of the market share. It is a large, and growing ever larger, percentage of the eyepiece market and Televue wants some of it. A fair percentage of Televues "traditional" market has moved in this direction in recent years. To be honest I thought they were a bit slow on the uptake. They are located smack bang in the middle of the worlds biggest eyepiece market which has an immensely parochial following. Nikon have recently released a new eyepiece line smack bang into the middle of this very same market, as well.

http://www.kkohki.com/English/kkohkiparts.html#Nikon

The Nikon NAV SW which were released in 2009 are $170 more expensive than the DELOS. The new DELOS will run out the door if they perform at the level I think they will.

Pretty simple business strategy IMO.

Cheers,
John B

[Fox]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

That niche they are trying to fill is a high quality long eye relief ~ 70 deg AFOV eyepiece, where a number of other manufacturers currently have "all" of the market share....

The Nikon NAV SW which were released in 2009 are $170 more expensive than the DELOS. The new DELOS will run out the door if they perform at the level I think they will.

Pretty simple business strategy IMO.

Cheers,
John B

Agree, if they release a ~14 and 20mm at around $339, I'm there for both! I just hope they keep to 1.25 inch, I really don't like the double barrel set up, the optional attachment of a 2" skirt/collar is much better IMHO. I was just about to splurge during the last 48 hours of the current TV sale, but the Delos range has made me re-evaluate with high anticipation. Thanks for the heads-up John....! Fox

[PlanetMan]

I think the collective assessment of the Delos is pretty much on target here. It also probably seems better focused in assessing what EP the Delos are trying to compete with which then in turn has the flow on effect as to what type of market share it is trying to attract.

In this context I think everyone has hit the nail on the head that the Delos with their respective combination of FOV and ER are squarely aimed at top shelf widefield EPs like the Pentax XW's or Vixen LVW's. In this comparison I think the competition surrounding the Delos will boil down to one word:

Lanthanum

Both the Pentax XW's and Vixen LVW's use this specific grade of glass and it evidently has some sort of beneficial optical property as the original Pentax XL's were made from ED glass and then specifically changed with the XW's. In one sense the closest comparison to the Delos might actually be the Pentax XL's or maybe the Hyperions.

In any case it will certainly be interesting to see what magic can come from a bit of green lettering and whether an ED glass from Televue is any better than Lanthanum which the folks from Vixen and Pentax seem to invest such a high premium upon.

[sasup (Stacey)]

im in line for a 6mm. It look like a great option from pentex in the 6mm to 10mm odd. Also the box stays all green.