Hello,
Firstly This relates to Astronomy because, one time coming back from a remote viewing site at 4am I got the Falcon hung up on a badly cratered narrow mountain dirt road, out of phone signal range.......scary!
Wife suggested I needed a 4WD (in jest I reckon) and now I own a (very old pre-loved) land cruiser.
Anyway, I am a bit reluctant to go in boots and all, by myself. But I have no idea what my vehicle is capable of, and I would like to find out - preferrably before I need it.
So I was wondering if there may be someone with 4WD experience in the area (Wyong/Bennets Green/Newcastle) who may be up for a bit of newbie training, experience sharing? Nothing too heavy.
I know I could join a club, but they have subscriptions and conditions and I am not even sure I want to get into it that far.
Hi Allan
When I first went over to 4WD some years ago, I went on a weekend training course with Vic Widman 4WD Tours, which they hold in the Braidwood area NSW. Well worth the money. The interesting lesson learned is that it is often the drivers limitations which dictate rather than the vehicles capabilities.
These days I enjoy getting out into the bush with my camper trailer, but don't do serious off-road trips.
I've been 4-wheeling for around 35 years - and learned to drive the family Series-II Landrover on our property in Mudgee when I was 12. I've been the president of a 4WD club for a few years and am now fairly heavily involved in another large Sydney club.
I highly recommend going to the NSW/ACT association website:
to look for clubs in your local area. Joining a club doesn't mean that you have to become involved in all the politics (like any club) unless you really want to. Use their expertise to give you an idea of what your vehicle is capable of - and yourself. Most clubs have a great driver training function, and even if they don't (smaller clubs) then they will still contain a wealth of information that you can learn from.
As Chris mentioned - try some of the Getabout/Widman type companies that offer both training and trips.
Owning a 4WD for a number of years now, I am beginning to learn mine, and the vehicles limits - crossed the Tanami desert and travelled the Gibb River Road earlier this year for example; nothing quite like changing a shock absorber in a remote part of the world.
As with Astronomy, with 4WDriving you never stop learning.
The best thing you can do is (a) join a club, (b) go on an accredited 4WD training course and (c) go with responsible 4WD owners on day trips or weekends away - many clubs offer trips to non-members/prospective members (like a try before buy thing). The magazine 4WD monthly (amongst others I am sure, I just know that one) also has some great tips on responsible and safe driving plus a series of DVDs that have tips etc.
I bought the 4WD and then, after a number of years, joined a club as nothing is a substitute for learning from (friendly) experts in the safe environments that a club or course provides. Often a trainer will hop in the car's passenger seat and give direct advice and they generally exude an aura of calmness that helps too. Further a club gets access to some interesting areas.
I have also gone on a number of trips with very experienced friends who have been 4WDriving for years. The first few times you do something the heart rates goes up and you soon learn that although it looks "interesting", as long as you follow the safe procedures it is amazing what can be done with a patient approach. For example, recently came back from the Flinders Ranges with some magnificent hill climbs and creek crawls (unfortunately only one clear night :-( ). In some cases it was necessary to stop, have a good look at the situation and in some cases do a bit of road repair, or have a friend direct the placement of wheels lest you leave something of the under-body behind.
What a 4WD does do is open up parts of the country that are magnificent - I have never seen the sky like I did from the Bungle Bungle, carting the 5inch rich field refractor along some very ordinary dusty tracks made it truly magical with the surrounds.
With 4WD it often comes down to traction, tyre pressures and lots of common sense. As with Astronomy, 4WDriving will absorb all the budget you are willing to throw at it. Have a think what you want to do before getting too carried away with the 7 inch suspension lift or 15,000lb winch or whatever other gadgets. My vehicle was factory standard for a very long time (covered Tasmania, Grampians, Flinders Ranges, Oodnadatta Track, parts of NSW), I only recently gave it a 2 inch suspension lift because after 170,000km the suspension was a bit tired and you can not get factory parts anymore - i.e. you automatically get a lift. Mind you was very handy in the Kimberley and the Flinders, allowing for more things and not being quite as worried about scraping things.
If you can, get yourself a 12V air compressor (not the super el-cheapo one, something around the $100 range will generally last) a long-handled shovel and a snatch-strap (with rated shackles). These will have you well set for doing a myriad of things with folk. Near Newcastle is Stockton Beach with some fantastic sand 4WDriving (my favourite form) - go with some folk who have done it before you will probably find a club day or something you can tag-along wtih. The Myall Lakes area is beautiful but I must admit I have not done much 4WDriving in the region so can not comment on places to go etc.
I'm a 4wd fan and yes mine goes off-road from time to time.
I used to be moderately serious, particularly with my first one and did quite a lot with it. It was an ex-army (FFR) Series III 6-cyl Landrover and though a tad spartan, it was the envy of many of my friends who also went 4wd. Its main problems was the cost of parts (... and you thought telescope parts were dear) and the fact it would only do 95km/hr down-hill with a tail-wind flat out. In the context that it was pretty much a stock 4wd, it was almost unstoppable.
Did a few of the outback treks with it and spent a 2 weeks on Fraser Island pulling Toyota Hi-Luxes out of sand bogs. Went to a Nissan Patrol, then a couple of Dual-cab utes and now a 2005 Pajero.
Of all of them, the one I loved most (surprisingly) was my dual-cab Holden Rodeo. Went to Fraser (3rd trip) in that one with my wife and daughter and still spent plenty of time towing Toyota Prado's out of sand bogs. The Rodeo wasn't the most capable 4wd by any means but it had a lot of other things going for it that personally I found endearing. I could take my 18" 'scope and everything I needed for a week of camping in the back and still get 11 ltrs/100km. In 7 yrs of ownership, apart from normal maintenance, it cost nothing at all in repairs, two sets of tyres and a set of brake-pads for 160,000km. That is cheap motoring in anyone's language.
I do less 4wding now than I used to and little of it could be described as really serious. I need the space for the telescope though. As someone else said, Stockton Beach is a blast.
If you get one and join a club or team up with some other 4wd nuts, prepared to be absolutely astonished by where even a stock-standard 4wd can go in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.
Have Pajero LWB wagon , will travel. Bought it brand new in 1992.
Done the Pilbura, the Kimberley , a bit of the NT, the Gulf Country , been a several years since our last big adventure out in the nevernever.
Mostly just short dirt tracks and sand trails , and beach driving , to go fishing in more recent years.
I don't generally go 4WDing to get to remote hard to access dark sites. But I do enjoy the inky black and clear skies I see when I go 4WDing for adventure, siteseeing and fishing.
I'll never voluntarily go back to 2WD vehicles ....
Another 4WDer here. Been enjoying it for 25+ years, and done and taught 4WD courses for search and rescue personnel for years.
By all means, if you can find someone local to learn from do so, but just be a bit careful that you aren't learning bad habits. As the other guys have suggested, if you can get some training or even limited involvement in a club, you will benefit.
If you can find a copy, get hold of a book called "The Glovebox Guide to 4-Wheel Driving" by Bernard R. Kestel. It was published by the Forestry Commission of NSW, ISBN 0 7305 1758 6. I have a copy and, yes, it lives in the glovebox... not that I need to refer to it. It is very good, practical and basically covers everthing I used to teach to Forestry Rangers and Emergency Personnel involved in rescue.
Apart from decribing the practical skills and knowledge you need, this book contains the 3 most important questions you need to ask yourself when facing a 4WD obstacle:
Do I need to go there?
Is the vehicle capable of going there?
Am I capable of driving the vehicle there?
The other most important bit of info I think you need to know, is learn how to do a "stall recovery" properly. If you end up in steep country, it will likely save you much expense!
If you feel like taking a drive to Oberon one weekend, I'll happily take you out for an educational play! We have some excellent trails around here.
We bought an ex-govt HJ47 troopie in '84 for our round Oz working holiday. Sold it this year and bought a 2002 troopie. Just couldn't consider anything else but a troopie. For us it has always been a means to an end - able to get to great places but also able to cart all the gear one takes on a long trip. Our learning curve involved:
1) Being amazed at where it would go.
2) Being disappointed when we found where it wouldn't go.
3) Discovering how hard it can be to extract a bogged 4WD.
4) Learing to drive within our means.
Mostly the 'disappointments' were minor, and none were dangerous. Since we mostly travel alone we are conservative about where we go, but still get to great spots. We have a basic set of recovery gear, a reasonable first-aid kit, and we always have enough spare food and water that getting stranded shouldn't become dangerous.
BTW we kitted out the 47 for travel and found that one of the most useful extras is one that is least mentioned - a water tank. We had a 45l tank mounted on the pasengers side between the chassis and the body in front of the rear wheel with the tap above the bottom of the side panel (if you know the car). If you ever get to the point where you do much traveling you will find it much easier and eficient than carrying jerry cans (though we also carried these for remote desert travel). We've been at a bit of a lost without it, but the water tank will be in the new troopie before xmas.
Last edited by AstralTraveller; 24-11-2009 at 07:24 PM.
Reason: clarity
We bought an ex-govt HJ47 troopie in '84 for our round Oz working holiday. Sold it this year and bought a 2002 troopie. Just couldn't consider anything else but a troopie. For us it has always been a means to an end - able to get to great places but also able to cart all the gear one takes on a long trip. Our learning curve involved:
1) Being amazed at where it would go.
2) Being disappointed when we found where it wouldn't go.
3) Discovering how hard it can be to extract a bogged 4WD.
4) Learing to drive within our means.
Mostly the 'disappointments' were minor, and none were dangerous. Since we mostly travel alone we are conservative about where we go, but still get to great spots. We have a basic set of recovery gear, a reasonable first-aid kit, and we always have enough spare food and water that getting stranded shouldn't become dangerous.
BTW we kitted out the 47 for travel and found that one of the most useful extras is one that is least mentioned - a water tank. We had a 45l tank mounted on the pasengers side between the chassis and the body in front of the rear wheel with the tap above the bottom of the side panel (if you know the car). If you ever get to the point where you do much traveling you will find it much easier and eficient than carrying jerry cans (though we also carried these for remote desert travel). We've been at a bit of a lost without it, but the water tank will be in the new troopie before xmas.
We took the attitude that you can't have too much water in tanks in the vehicle (we favoured those 30 litre square shaped tanks ,they are not too heavy when full , they are square shaped so stay put when packed behind the front seats on the floor and so you can keep the centre of the centre of gravity low ....
The Engal car fridge was a wonderful investment .... saved a lot of money that we'd spent otherwize on bags of ice (needed otherwize every day or so) , and it does a perfect job keeping the snags, steaks, milk and other cold stuff , including drinks , icey cold and fresh.
We use the Engal all the time as "bar fridge / drinks fridge" in the home ,it's never turned off.
For me I have found that a 4WD opens up lots of opportunities to explore. While many of the tracks or adventures do not necessarily need a 4WD, the fact that I have one means I do get out more, even to non-4WD specific locations.
As an example, I needed to be in Sydney for work one summer school holidays (January 2007). We turned it into a family road trip and took a few weeks holiday around the Forester-Tuncurry and Myall Lakes region (very beautiful spot).
Anyway, travelling back to the campsite one night and I saw an impressive sight between the trees. Having been out of communication with the rest of the world for a while (by choice) the family were guessing what it was, whilst I knew from one look that it had to be a comet, a very impressive one at that! Vaguely recalling a comet discovery announced back in August 2006 that was supposed to be peaking around Jan 2007 I thought that must be it and as we know 'twas a beaut. Not having my telescope nor a sophisticated camera, I was nonetheless keen to get back to the campsite before the comet set with the hope of capturing the comet situated over the lake as it set. Managed to make it back in time to quickly set up the tripod and Olympus C740 camera and rattle off a couple of snaps that I subsequently stacked. Attached is the result. Whilst not a digital masterpiece it captures some of the essence of the beauty of that moment with the comet reflected in the waters of the lake. Note, the camera is not a night-time camera so worked with what I had plus I was fumbling in the dark for the settings having never used the camera in this way before or having the manual
Without the 4WD (even though did not need a 4WD to get to that location) I would not have had that moment to share with the family - other moments yes, but not quite _that_ one.
Now that I have had a 4WD I would find it hard to go back to not having one. My kids are also keen (range in age from 14 to 10) and are asking what trip next dad (with suggestions), what upgrades dad, what 4WD would be the dream vehicle dad... Would hate to disappoint them...
Best advice I have found:
Join a club and/or do an accredited 4WD course. Nothing replaces learning first-hand.
The three questions to ask yourself, referred too in a previous post are fantastic.
Patience, do not rush - you are (usually) on holiday so enjoy.
Bryce is with me in the Landrover Owners Club - he runs both a Rangie and Defender.
mmm... The Landrover Owner's Club had a day with us at my mate's place playing on tanks a while ago. I might've met him (among the sea of faces) if he was there...
Hmm, not a REAL 4WD, but I bought a Nissan X-Trail on Sunday. Has good clearance, plus lockable 4WD. I chose it after deliberating for some time between it, a Disco, or a P38A Rangie. The Nissan won due to a much better deal, and all the bad things you read about Land Rover electronics in late 90's/00's vehicles. Every P38A I looked at had stuffed suspension electronics, and most of the Disco's had stuffed ABS electonics!
My last car (sold it on Monday - sob sob) was a Japper that I've had for 19 years, and was as reliable as a very reliable thing.
I'm sure I will reach limitations with the X-Trail, but it's a decent usable intro.
mmm... The Landrover Owner's Club had a day with us at my mate's place playing on tanks a while ago. I might've met him (among the sea of faces) if he was there...
As the name suggests, i've got a jeep and i've had it for about 10 years. It's had quite a few modifications done it over the many years. Before that i had a nissan dual cab that we took to fraser and a few places. We've been all over the place with the jeep and many a time i've wished i've had a scope with me. I need to get something a little more portable than my 10" dob for camping trips but we camp on the beach a fair bit and that's not the best spot for a scope... unless you like rusty scopes
Getting some experience with others is a great way to learn what not to do. Also being self reliant for recoveries is something you should aim for etc winch, hi-lift jack, Maxtrax
As the name suggests, i've got a jeep and i've had it for about 10 years. It's had quite a few modifications done it over the many years. Before that i had a nissan dual cab that we took to fraser and a few places. We've been all over the place with the jeep and many a time i've wished i've had a scope with me. I need to get something a little more portable than my 10" dob for camping trips but we camp on the beach a fair bit and that's not the best spot for a scope... unless you like rusty scopes
Getting some experience with others is a great way to learn what not to do. Also being self reliant for recoveries is something you should aim for etc winch, hi-lift jack, Maxtrax
Nice Pics I'm a fellow TJ Jeeper as well, love Jeeping, camping, fishing, astro out bush and geocaching. My 14" dob only just squeezes into the back of me jeep in bits with no back seat. love the jeep...i'ts a jeeep thing
. As the other guys have suggested, if you can get some training or even limited involvement in a club, you will benefit
... not that I need to refer to it. It is very good, practical and basically covers everthing I used to teach to Forestry Rangers and Emergency Personnel involved in rescue.
I'm a fellow TJ Jeeper as well, love Jeeping, camping, fishing, astro out bush and geocaching. My 14" dob only just squeezes into the back of me jeep in bits with no back seat. love the jeep...i'ts a jeeep thing 
