Looking for a new netbook or laptop for DSO imaging

Paul Haese · #1 18-06-2011, 04:15 PM

Hi all,

just seeking some advice on what some of you think regarding a netbook or Laptop for DSO imaging.

This unit is going into the observatory and will remain there with images being downloaded to a portable hard drive at the end of the night.

I need to have 3 USB ports with something around 250 gig HD and around 1 gig of RAM. I think this will suit for running MaximDL (optional guide software), Sky6 and Tpoint.

Any suggestions would be welcomed and if you could include why you think this it would be appreciated.

Look forward to your thoughts.

renormalised (Carl) · #2 18-06-2011, 04:47 PM

Depends on how much you want to spend, but JB HiFi have some good ones going for a song. Little Toshiba with 500GB HD, 2GB RAM for $493. Or, an Acer with 3GB RAM, 500GB HD, i5 processor for $677. Grab yourself a 2TB portable HD as well. Want something with a bit of capacity. Toshiba and Acer are reliable computers and that's what you need for the observatory. Something you can trust not to go BSOD every 5 minutes or complain about the workload its under. The extra RAM is going to give you some breathing space in this regard. I would also have it well locked up, just in case.

Paul Haese · #3 18-06-2011, 06:03 PM

Thanks Carl, those are in the price range, with better features than I had seen else where too. I have got plenty of external drives too. Just got another TB today. I ahve a three x back storage policy. ie nothing is backed up unless you have it backed up three times. Usually I do a CD, DVD and on HD. More recently though all on HD x 3.

With regard to netbooks I have taken a bit of a look at HN and Office works so far, will take long look at JB now.

drylander (Peter) · #4 18-06-2011, 09:43 PM

A handy tip as well. Toshiba laptops while in use dislike coffee spilt on the keyboard.

so watch the coffee while observing.........

Don't ask how I know this

Pete

marc4darkskies (Marcus) · #5 19-06-2011, 01:31 PM

Well, I'm actually thinking of swearing off giving advice on hardware & software!

So, all I'll mention is what I have. A Dell XPS 15, Win7 Pro 64 bit, I7 quad core, 6Gb memory, 750G drive but only two USBs. I use one USB for the camera and mount (powered hub and active cables) and the other for Robofocus and Maxdome.

I went for a fairly high spec because I upgraded to TheSkyX and CCDAP5 and didn't want things to grind to a halt with CPU overload. Last night was the first time I did a full observatory test and it came through with flying colours. I also want to run CS5 and CCDStack on it (both of these use multi threading I believe).

The only real advice I'd give Paul is to plan for the future (= quad core and plenty of RAM - I don't think 1G is enough frankly).

Cheers, Marcus

renormalised (Carl) · #6 19-06-2011, 03:02 PM

Sheesh, Marcus, that's bigger than most desktops!!!!.

It's crazy...it's only because MS just want to make bloatware OSes that run bloatware apps, that everything is getting bigger and bigger, more overly complicated, but the actual productivity (speed etc) isn't really increasing. You've got computers and software now that are 5-10 times the size that do exactly the same amount of processing, relatively speaking, that simpler computers and software were doing just as well 5-10 years ago.

marc4darkskies (Marcus) · #7 19-06-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Sheesh, Marcus, that's bigger than most desktops!!!!.

It's crazy...it's only because MS just want to make bloatware OSes that run bloatware apps, that everything is getting bigger and bigger, more overly complicated, but the actual productivity (speed etc) isn't really increasing. You've got computers and software now that are 5-10 times the size that do exactly the same amount of processing, relatively speaking, that simpler computers and software were doing just as well 5-10 years ago.

Bigger than most desktops?!! Same amount of processing?! Hardly! More than the OS, it is nice to be able to process 20 x 20Mb sub-exposures in CCDStack without it falling over and not wait for 10 minutes for a single 50 iteration deconvolution! 64 bit CS5 just screams along now too! I.e. I can do 5-10 times more processing than my old WinXP single core lappy or desktop! My old lappy was starting to groan handling everything that goes on during an observing session too. Anyway, bigger and faster computers are a fact of life like death and taxes!

multiweb (Marc) · #8 19-06-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Bigger than most desktops?!! Same amount of processing?! Hardly! More than the OS, it is nice to be able to process 20 x 20Mb sub-exposures in CCDStack without it falling over and not wait for 10 minutes for a single 50 iteration deconvolution! 64 bit CS5 just screams along now too! I.e. I can do 5-10 times more processing than my old WinXP single core lappy or desktop! My old lappy was starting to groan handling everything that goes on during an observing session too. Anyway, bigger and faster computers are a fact of life like death and taxes!

Gotta agree with Marcus. CCD Stack also flies with very large stacks. PS 64bits is great and doing mosaic I just love the extra RAM. I have 24GB right now and use sometime up to 15GB. Production is definitely increased with processing. I haven't got a fast laptop on the field for guiding and others so I'm wondering if a new fast system would increase and improve USB transfer? What do you guys reckon?

asimov (John) · #9 19-06-2011, 04:12 PM

Recommending a particular laptop is like weather & seeing predictions; You just wouldn't do it if you want some egg on the face..

Plenty of deals going on this time of year, so shop around. I just picked up a nice Toshy Satellite P750 quad core/6 GIG RAM for just under 1K from the Office Works.

Gotta have my USB3 for shoving big files up the pipe to an external HD.

marc4darkskies (Marcus) · #10 19-06-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asimov

...
Gotta have my USB3 for shoving big files up the pipe to an external HD.

Get a lappy with an eSATA port

michaellxv (Michael) · #11 19-06-2011, 04:57 PM

If this is a permanent installation in the observatory is there any reason you have ruled out a desktop? You could get a small case and still get more bang for your buck. No need to put a monitor or keyboard on it once its setup and running.

Paul Haese · #12 19-06-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Well, I'm actually thinking of swearing off giving advice on hardware & software!

The only real advice I'd give Paul is to plan for the future (= quad core and plenty of RAM - I don't think 1G is enough frankly).

Cheers, Marcus

No problem Marcus. Not your fault that the software did not work on my system. So don't feel bad.

I was thinking that I could use a netbook and it would be cheap, but your point about future proofing is well made and I have thought a little along those lines.

Yes more grunt would be nicer. Currently have dual core, 4 gig of RAM and that can take a little time to process out files. I have run across problems with CCDstack before once I get a lot of subs to stack. I will keep this in mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaellxv

If this is a permanent installation in the observatory is there any reason you have ruled out a desktop? You could get a small case and still get more bang for your buck. No need to put a monitor or keyboard on it once its setup and running.

This could well be an option Michael. It is for a permanent installation and all I need do really is use a external drive for downloading files. Also something to consider.

Great tips all, and I will think more along the lines presented.

Quark (Trevor) · #13 20-06-2011, 01:14 PM

Hi Paul, certainly a topical subject. I have had good service from my last two Toshiba laptops. Each one was the highest spec available at the time of purchase in an effort to future proof them.

This morning ordered a new Toshiba X770 notebook. It has a 17.3" HD display, the same as my previous Toshiba.

i7 quad core 2.0 Ghz processor, 8 Gb Ram, 1.25 Tb HDD made up of a 500 Gb hybrid drive + a 750 Gb HDD. My last Toshiba had 2 x 320Gb drives and 4 Gb of Ram. The X770 has 1 USB3 port and 3 USB2 ports, also an expansion port for my Unibrain Firecard 800 for the Flea3.

I am now using 2Tb USB3 external hard drives to dump my data on. The Toshiba should allow my Flea3 to run at its full speed potential.

Good luck.
Cheers
Trevor

renormalised (Carl) · #14 20-06-2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Bigger than most desktops?!! Same amount of processing?! Hardly! More than the OS, it is nice to be able to process 20 x 20Mb sub-exposures in CCDStack without it falling over and not wait for 10 minutes for a single 50 iteration deconvolution! 64 bit CS5 just screams along now too! I.e. I can do 5-10 times more processing than my old WinXP single core lappy or desktop! My old lappy was starting to groan handling everything that goes on during an observing session too. Anyway, bigger and faster computers are a fact of life like death and taxes!

It is...go and have a look at the average desktop they sell. Most are i3's and 6GB of RAM is hardly standard...it's usually 1-3GB.

Your only handling more data now because you have more powerful data acquisition devices that send you more data. It would be natural for the older system you had to be groaning under the weight. It wasn't meant to handle that much data. But in relative terms, the amount of data vs processing power is still very close to being the same. In real terms, there has been no improvement...only everything has gotten bigger. I agree, bigger and faster computers are a fact of life. However, the bigger the software packages have become, the more bloated they are and the less elegant their programming. Half of the abilities inherent in CS5 (or any other program) you've probably never used. Or ever will use. Unless they're playing games (and the GPU does most of the work anyway) there's no need for most people to own the computer that they do. They're under utilised for what they're doing in the home.

In our case, as astronomers and piccie takers, then, no they're not under used.

renormalised (Carl) · #15 20-06-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multiweb

Gotta agree with Marcus. CCD Stack also flies with very large stacks. PS 64bits is great and doing mosaic I just love the extra RAM. I have 24GB right now and use sometime up to 15GB. Production is definitely increased with processing. I haven't got a fast laptop on the field for guiding and others so I'm wondering if a new fast system would increase and improve USB transfer? What do you guys reckon?

USB transfer will occur only at the speed the bus is able to handle. Your biggest bottleneck is your HD. It will also be your RAM if you have to do any processing, but less so than the HD. So, what you need is a large, fast HD and a decent amount of RAM that runs at a fast bus speed.

renormalised (Carl) · #16 20-06-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaellxv

If this is a permanent installation in the observatory is there any reason you have ruled out a desktop? You could get a small case and still get more bang for your buck. No need to put a monitor or keyboard on it once its setup and running.

Good idea

Paul Haese · #17 20-06-2011, 08:36 PM

Thanks guys.

Trev, if I was going to buy another lappy for my planetary work I would need to consider RAM, USB3 and certainly the expansion slot. Good suggestions.

Carl I reckon you make a good point here but maybe not what you intended. This machine will be collecting data only, no processing and the data collection is quite slow. So maybe something not totally top end??

marc4darkskies (Marcus) · #18 20-06-2011, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

It is...go and have a look at the average desktop they sell. Most are i3's and 6GB of RAM is hardly standard...it's usually 1-3GB.

Sure, but c'mon Carl - we're talking astrophotography here. We're talking about folks that need grunt and power to process images and drive half a dozen bits of kit and as many applications in real time without a hiccup and with headroom to spare. The average read-your-email and browse-the-web ma & pa user is not relevant to the OP or my comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Your only handling more data now because you have more powerful data acquisition devices that send you more data. It would be natural for the older system you had to be groaning under the weight. It wasn't meant to handle that much data. But in relative terms, the amount of data vs processing power is still very close to being the same. In real terms, there has been no improvement...only everything has gotten bigger. I agree, bigger and faster computers are a fact of life. However, the bigger the software packages have become, the more bloated they are and the less elegant their programming. Half of the abilities inherent in CS5 (or any other program) you've probably never used. Or ever will use. Unless they're playing games (and the GPU does most of the work anyway) there's no need for most people to own the computer that they do. They're under utilised for what they're doing in the home.
...

Mate, I'm actually not sure the point you're trying to make

unless it's just MS bashing? In any case I repeat, I'm only considering astrophotography needs, nothing else.

Paul Haese · #19 21-06-2011, 12:07 PM

Ok getting close on my selection. Dell has great prices at present i7, 7200rpm HD and 4 gig standard, but upgradeable for under a 1000. Next question. What about operating system? 64 or 32 bit? Will all the software for guiding, and capture work under 64 bit or should I just get 32bit win 7?

renormalised (Carl) · #20 21-06-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Thanks guys.

Trev, if I was going to buy another lappy for my planetary work I would need to consider RAM, USB3 and certainly the expansion slot. Good suggestions.

Carl I reckon you make a good point here but maybe not what you intended. This machine will be collecting data only, no processing and the data collection is quite slow. So maybe something not totally top end??

That's what I was saying too, Paul. No need for a flashy machine here.

What I was saying about Marcus's monster masher was when you compare the machines from a few years back to ones now, the relative amount of work they do is the same, but the real productivity increases just aren't there, when you listen to all the hype and look at it objectively. Relatively speaking, the machines from back then could do the same jobs as the ones are doing now, but because the amount of data we collect now is greater, and the software that we run on them has become more bloated, the machines have to consequently become more powerful to handle the workload.