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Old 29-07-2010, 10:15 AM
Jarvamundo (Alex)
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A THEMIS map of plasma flows during a spacequake

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/27/spacequakes/
Quote:
A THEMIS map of plasma flows during a spacequake. The axes are labeled in Earth radii, so each swirl is about the size of Earth.
“When plasma jets hit the inner magnetosphere, vortices with opposite sense of rotation appear and reappear on either side of the plasma jet,” explains Rumi Nakamura of the Space Research Institute in Austria, a co-author of the study. "We believe the vortices can generate substantial electrical currents in the near-Earth environment". Acting together, vortices and spacequakes could have a noticeable effect on Earth. The tails of vortices may funnel particles into Earth’s atmosphere, sparking auroras and making waves of ionization that disturb radio communications and GPS. By tugging on surface magnetic fields, spacequakes generate currents in the very ground we walk on. Ground current surges can have profound consequences, in extreme cases bringing down power grids over a wide area.
"Spacequake! Vortices, Tunnels, Electric Current, Twisting Pairs, Great Tugging Tornadoes!" heheh

http://www.google.com.au/images?q=bi...current+aurora

http://www.thefullwiki.org/Birkeland_current

Last edited by Jarvamundo; 29-07-2010 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 29-07-2010, 01:37 PM
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Wow even more evidence of the Push Universe... thanks for that Alex I found it very interesting.
I have a feeling you could be an "electric universe" observer ... may I ask if that is correct?
alex
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Old 29-07-2010, 02:56 PM
Jarvamundo (Alex)
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
Wow even more evidence of the Push Universe... thanks for that Alex I found it very interesting.
I have a feeling you could be an "electric universe" observer ... may I ask if that is correct?
alex
Alex, i explore all mainstream & alternative models, i guess at the moment i'm very intrigued with the sheer amount of new data coming from radio telescopes, particularly excited plasma structures MANY time larger than the structure represented by an optical photo of a galaxy.

kind of a "wow, who woulda thunk it moment", from my lil 10" dob.

One thing is becoming increasingly obvious, charge separation is there, we're guna have to deal with it...

As mentioned, B Gaensler from USYD is developing models, where he says... (along the lines of) "if you include the magnetism (and yes he knows the electric currents are there) we observe on large scales, alot of the problems disappear". Him and his team really have some exciting work.

Regarding push gravity, i've really enjoyed Tom Van Flandern's first few chapters on this in his book "Dark Matter & Missing Planets", and continue to absorb similar push theories. I feel push models can adequately describe the effects we see, unfortunately, to me, falls short of the 'how'. Mind you, as does GR (for me), as does any other theory so far (for me) at the moment. I'm still looking. There are still a number of areas i'd really like to explore indepth, APM, some of the newer MONDs.

I'm always happy to hear more, or be pointed in directions of any insights you or others may have!

http://www.ift.uam.es/workshops/Dark...kMatterPie.jpg

I'm probably towards to side of "hey your maths is impeccable, but i don't buy it"... with respect to the above image...hey... shoot me.... i still don't buy it / care.... I'd have to say i proceed with a healthy skepticism of all physics that cannot be verified in a lab.... I prefer to start from the lab, and work out... others prefer to start from models and work in. All good, each to their own.

I'm a strong believer in free minds, people sharing, and then... go make your own mind up. So i find comfort in your phrase "trust no one".

One thing is clear, there are many qualified talented people working on all angles at all these problems, we should celebrate them all. If Hawking can get away with talking about worm holes, surely an electric current or magnetic field can get a mention when discussing observations.

Last edited by Jarvamundo; 29-07-2010 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 29-07-2010, 09:36 PM
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Thank you for such a considered reply.

I like to consider a premise as to its reasonableness on the expectation the math will no doubt prove the premise however it does appear to me there is little that needs to be set in cement... and as crazy as an idea will be proclaimed still many fanciful ideas come from the Professor Hawking camp as you have observed... the notion of worm holes to me is absolute nonsense ..space can not be folded like the graph paper that many seek to record their concept of space...folk have suggested my ideas unsupportable but I feel I have never presented an idea that was not somewhat reasonable..and the push gravity universe told me the pioneer craft would slow when they go past the heliosphere..as they have.. still little recognition has been given to my prediction on that point being correct and nasa incorrect....but I guess most humans will think that way about their beliefs and even their solid science.
Few folk believe they could be wrong and would not admit such anyways.

BUT how good is the fact there is so much available data and the means to access same ...
alex
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Old 30-07-2010, 11:27 AM
Jarvamundo (Alex)
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Yes, the internet has made some fantastic tools, kudos to NASA and the other space agencies for sharing, really makes a site like IIS a breeding ground for some great contributors to the field.

Re: Worm holes and 'bending space'
There is a Tasmanian mathematician by the name of Stephen Crothers, marred in controversy was expelled by UNSW for refusing to change his thesis.

In this, he demonstrated einstein-gravitational cannot be localised, and when one investigates the original works of Schwartzchild it is verified, unfortunately Hilbert's derivation that followed introduced the apparent error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCrothers
Schwarzschild's actual [original paper not hilberts derivation] solution forbids black holes.
He was recently invited, and had a fully funded trip the German Royal Society to present his proofs, he left a room of theoretical physicists in silence. He is now regularly invited to present at universities in europe and the states, also has a number of online seminars with students, of which i followed in 1... i'll try to track down see if the seminar is still available for those here... It was a great walk through + Q&A at the end, from relativity students and professors.

For a somewhat balanced look at this, lets get to the usual favourite first.

The 'Tom Bridgeman' (rebuttal): http://dealingwithcreationisminastro...-crothers.html

Crothers Reply (to TB rebuttal, accessed from comments): www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/bridgman.pdf

Sharples (rebuttal of Crothers)
http://www.ptep-online.com/index_fil...0/PP-20-L1.PDF
Crothers (rebuttal of Sharples)
http://aias.us/documents/otherPapers...rplesReply.pdf

Letter from http://www.wbabin.net/comments/smulsky.pdf
Professor J Smulsky a Cheif Scientist & Russian Academy of Sciences and doctor of physical & mathematical theoretics.

The story of Crothers expulsion from UNSW Thesis Program: http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/PhD.html

(More digestable information)
Crothers on Black Holes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4GFAjX62Yg
Crothers on BBT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmI0Xo3VXKc

(the second video he discusses einstein localisation and gravity waves).

Presentation as Astro Physics Conference on GR
www.dpg-verhandlungen.de/2009/muenchen/gr5.pdf

Science is full of 'human' sides.

Alex, You are not alone in agreement with the absurdity of worm holes, when one takes into account their experiences in reality. Crothers continues to publish.

Each to their own though...

Last edited by Jarvamundo; 30-07-2010 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 30-07-2010, 02:48 PM
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Thank you for taking the time to post the above links.

I have only looked at the utube stuff so far..however at the time I read your post I had just completed 1 hr 53 minutes of a Suskin lecture (yet another) (out of Stanford) on gravity ...or in other words it is probably not the right time to try to take in all your suggested reading which question many of the notions I am trying to come to grips with..

However a simple question directed to those believing in black holes would be...if so powerful such that zip can escape once past the event horizon then how could any gravity messenger particle escape a black hole so as to tell the rest of the universe of its (BH) presence...I understand that string theory speculates upon a particle ..the graviton..to convey the message of gravity....so the question must present as to why a graviton can/must be able to escape when not even light is able to do so... if nothing else the black hole model may need adjustment so the graviton can leave and be a messenger.

I think Dr A did not go along with the black hole concept and given that the black hole was born from GR this tends to make me feel skepticism is appropriate.

Cosmology appears to present the notion there is a super massive black hole at the center of some..er all galaxies and that all the stuff is held in orbit because of its presence...if you do the math you find one needs a black hole many multiples of magnitude greater than the mass of the entire galaxy... they are not like the Sun to the solar system as they apparently have little or no gravitational influence upon the host galaxy...and in this regard it seems clear galaxies are held together by an external force rather than an internal "attraction" system..... and if not there for such a purpose why have them... only one reason ...which I wont state

It seems to me what Dr A said and what others say he said are not always the same. Wishing something may be so does not entitle anyone to change what the man said.

Happily I found the weak link in the physics when considering the proposals set out in Suskins lecture. He as do all physicists start with a blank sheet of paper to embrace the concept of "an inertial frame of reference". This theoretical outline of a region of our universe comp templates "nothing" but there is always something and maybe the something should be the first thing recorded.. even before the simple formula F=MA so as to get a real picture of what influence must be taken into account in our inertial frame of reference.

I can not find when such a condition may exist in our universe (it is in itself a statement that we can consider "nothing" yet I suggest the fact must be that there is simply no place in the universe where we can find a physical recreation of "an inertial frame of reference"... I think all can reasonably observe that even the most remote part of space..a void..we indeed must recognize there is indeed a great deal of something..to use the worst of double negatives..."there is no nothing" or simply and cleanly...there is always something...which must make our inertial frame of reference highly suspect..a term of "aether" would seem appropriate however MM proved there be non.

I find such a result difficult as one can imagine that even in a void at any single point we must find at the very least EME coming from everywhere...and so physics only takes a convenient view if the aether (or whatever term we use to replace the one MM threw out) is not first set in place as the background to any premise as to how anything must work or indeed how gravity shall work.


Anyways I did find the lecture interesting and it gave me a better understanding of the math at play...many here encourage me to take time to include math in my kit and it was for them I took the lecture..and my earlier position has been affirmed...math is great to support a supportable premise....er in fact I believe math can also support an unsupportable premise as well.. I intend to take many more lectures even though I disagree with the conclusions that the universe obeys the math humans set out to explain why it does what it does but I wish to understand how GR was built from the math alone in the absence of experiment and observation.

AS to arguing the toss as to why GR and SR must agree or that GR is wrong I am not that interested in such argument as finally it is SR and GR that must fit the push universe not the other way around...

Why argue the existence of God with the Pope? because you will never win... in that case, as it will be when arguing SR or GR, even if you make a valid point you will never win the entire argument as those in the camp are most happy with all their explanations and of course the math (given the inputs) is most reasonable and seemingly accurate.

So I like the idea of starting with a clean sheet upon which I can place a field that will command everything else placed upon our "blank" sheet.

Hope my rambling can be understood and I apologize for the haste and poor review and edit of this post.
alex

Last edited by xelasnave; 30-07-2010 at 03:39 PM.
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