16 inch RCOS

gregbradley · #1 05-06-2010, 08:41 AM

This ad is at Astromart.

This is actually an incredible deal. US$55,000 for all of that gear is close to half price.

A new 16 inch RCOS landed in Oz is around AUD$60K by itself. Price is in a new PME, the RCOS extras, the camera and filters, adapters and bits and pieces you are around AUD$110K. All the GST and freight costs are not being priced in.

A good pickup for someone. When you add up the gradual upgrade path and losses from selling when upgrading plus the freights, the GST the constant adapters it would be very very easy for someone who is doing astrophotgraphy seriously to spend way more than that US$55,000.
So you could bite the bullet and try to get it in one hit and save 10's of thousands.

Greg.

DavidTrap (David) · #2 05-06-2010, 09:29 AM

I agree with your logic Greg, but I think my wife might have "issues"...

DT

gregbradley · #3 05-06-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

I agree with your logic Greg, but I think my wife might have "issues"...

DT

Mate, that's where your charm comes into play!

Greg.

rat156 · #4 05-06-2010, 12:30 PM

I looked at this and contacted Bert when the ad first popped up. I agree that the price is right, but I couldn't really afford to spend that much on the setup. I like my Astrophotography, but I haven't won Lotto yet.

Anyway, why not get a 17" CDK and Titan or AP mount? So the problem is that the RCOS OTA is expensive by comparison to the CDK. 17" CDK and even a PME is only (!) $36k, that leaves $19k to spend on camera etc...

Cheers
Stuar

gregbradley · #5 05-06-2010, 03:54 PM

Hi Stuart,

I already have all that gear you mentioned. I posted this in case others were interested.

As you say perhaps the competitors are more price conscious lets see;

CDK17 AUD$35,000 (includes GST, freight, US exchange rate .81, dovetail and a few accessories you'd get, like the electronic focuser/temp control, camera adapters, extra top dovetail etc)
FLI PL16803 and filter wheel (on special) includes filters (not 7 filters though) AUD$17,000
PME AUD$21,500 includes freight, GST, extra counterweights.
Computer and software (assuming you don't already have all that)
AUD$3,500
Misc power supplies, cables etc etc. $500

total $77,500 and all new no issues and under warranty.

So it still is considerably under that. Can't remember the ad exactly I think it was an Apogee U09000 camera. The FLI PL or ML 16803 would be better but the Apogee would still be nice. The 09000 chipped cameras suffer from RBI a lot so it wouldn't be my choice of camera and the extra cooling power of the FLI would be handy without the long cooldown time of 30 minutes+.

With the chip in the primary mirror he is probably asking a bit too much but if he went to US$45-47,500 it'd be a no brainer. But he probably wouldn't go that low.

Greg.

Jen · #6 05-06-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

I agree with your logic Greg, but I think my wife might have "issues"...

DT

you chicken

Well i better put lotto on again to keep the dream alive

sejanus (Gavin) · #7 05-06-2010, 04:23 PM

I wouldn't know what to do with gear like that but I think I'd be sleeping with the dogs if I bought it!

marki · #8 05-06-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

you chicken

Well i better put lotto on again to keep the dream alive

Don't think I could justify it even with a first division win and thats coming from someone who has bought quite a few stupidly priced toys over the years (I used to be involved in car and bike racing). Crikey thats a good deposite on a house which would only appreciate unlike the astro gear.

Mark

Jen · #9 05-06-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marki

Don't think I could justify it even with a first division win and thats coming from someone who has bought quite a few stupidly priced toys over the years (I used to be involved in car and bike racing). Crikey thats a good deposite on a house which would only appreciate unlike the astro gear.

Mark

lol Mark oh you wouldnt have to ask me twice if i had that amount to spend on astro gear i would be there in a flash show me the toys

marki · #10 05-06-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

lol Mark oh you wouldnt have to ask me twice if i had that amount to spend on astro gear i would be there in a flash show me the toys

All you would need then is a vacant moutain top in chile to make the thing worth while.... oh did I mention clouds

. I only get to play with my astro toys over the summer break so just could not justify having such an investment (non-returning at that) sitting around doing zilch for 46 weeks a year.

Mark

jase (Jason) · #11 05-06-2010, 06:03 PM

When it comes to presenting the final image, there is no difference between FLI or Apogee. No point getting "hell bent" on camera statistics when at the end of the night, there are so many other variables that influence the end result. The Apogee U9000 on this rig is a perfect match. Large pixels providing excellent sensitivity and sampling. I've pushed this rig through its paces after spending considerable time addressing the pointing model and 'trying' to get CCDAP to cooperate. The result of a few images (IC2220, NGC2736 and RCW58) and have one more data set I've yet to process. The chip in the primary doesn't compound performance but certainly resale value. This is a ideal turn key solution. If I'm not mistaken, there is an option to continue to host the rig at its current location. I personally wouldn't take this offer. I don't want to flame the site, but there are certainly better dark sky sites around.

Don't take the comment on cameras personal Greg. Just a general observation.

strongmanmike (Michael) · #12 05-06-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase

When it comes to presenting the final image, there is no difference between FLI or Apogee.

Same argument between a BMW and Toyota too they both get you there....in the end

jase (Jason) · #13 05-06-2010, 07:35 PM

Too right Mike. Lets see who travels in style.

strongmanmike (Michael) · #14 06-06-2010, 08:15 AM

I was just doing a Fred (ie alcohol induced stirring

)

I'd be happy to just travel....anywhere!...regardless of the ride...I've compiled the anormous sum of "two" images so far this year

Moon (James) · #15 06-06-2010, 09:49 AM

I would love to know the story behind the chip in the mirror. Can anyone share??

Quote:

but there are certainly better dark sky sites around.

Jase - Not having researched that stats myself, do you think they would get more clear nights than Gippsland?
James

gregbradley · #16 06-06-2010, 09:55 AM

Don't take the comment on cameras personal Greg. Just a general observation.

[/QUOTE]

Not at all. I used an Apogee U16M camera for 2 years and loved it.
And I agree that at the end of the image you would not tell which camera did what. I am not against Apogee at all, they make great cameras and are price competitive plus have a range of options. We are lucky to have so much excellent choice.

So RBI wasn't an issue with the U09000 at all? Did you image anything with something bright in it or focus on a bright star that the afterimage then persisted in later images? I only refer to complaints about the 09000 chip (FLI or Apogee or any camera) about it being very sensitive to RBI. Did you use the RBI flush tool? I think it only operates in Maxim like the FLI one.

Greg.

jase (Jason) · #17 06-06-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon

Jase - Not having researched that stats myself, do you think they would get more clear nights than Gippsland?
James

About the same James. Need to go further inland to improve on the quantity of clear nights. Having clear nights is one thing, but clear nights with good seeing is a completely different aspect. There were quite a few nights where the OAG guide star was all over the place. I did struggle with gradients when imaging targets in the east with this rig. Difficult to say if it was related to local conditions or something much broader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregbradley

So RBI wasn't an issue with the U09000 at all? Did you image anything with something bright in it or focus on a bright star that the afterimage then persisted in later images? I only refer to complaints about the 09000 chip (FLI or Apogee or any camera) about it being very sensitive to RBI. Did you use the RBI flush tool? I think it only operates in Maxim like the FLI one.

Greg.

Greg, I operated the U9000 at -20 or -15 most nights. RBI appears to be longer lasting the cooler the set point. RBI was present, but manageable. Actually, I turned on RBI flushing in MaximDL over a set of subs and found whilst it works, it introduces random noise...noise that does not have the same signature as the calibration frames hence took additional work to 'clean' the image in post processing. I left it turned off for the rest of the acquisition as I felt it didn't warrant an improvement. I'd be more than happy to put up with RBI given the gains in sensitivity.

strongmanmike (Michael) · #18 06-06-2010, 03:43 PM

The way I understand it Jase, the key to sucessfully addressing RBI without increasing the noise too much is that you need to operate very cold when using the RBI flush feature to prevent the charge leaking out of the RBI traps that were filled with the pre NIR flash.

Mike

gregbradley · #19 06-06-2010, 07:58 PM

Was the gain in sensitivity noticeable over the U16M?

As I recall the QE is only about 10% better or is it a bit more than that?

As Mike pointed out the RBI flush system does require -30C or better to slow down the leakage of trapped charge that will mess up your darks.
So you'd need the DO9 body really for that chip and to rid the RBI issue.
Or try not to expose it on a bright star or object.

I haven't used the RBI feature of the Proline as it requires Maxim and I use CCDSsoft. Can't say I've noticed it but then I haven't been looking for it.

Greg.