Dow takes a nose dive last night

[I.C.D (Ian)]

Hi All,
Just been watching Sunrise and they were saying the Dow took a 900 point dive during trading but has bounce back to close 344 down .The rumor has it that some big share trading company in the states sold 1b shares ? instead of 1m and the rest of the traders around the world had heart attacks thinking that round 2 of G.F.C had started.

Ian C

[Robh (Rob)]

I read this morning that someone entered a "b" for billion instead of "m" for million. Easy enough mistake to make!
As a share owner ... "not happy, Jan"

More here ...
http://www.news.com.au/business/huma...-1225863396968

Regards, Rob

[Nesti (Mark)]

This article is 100% big bank Black Ops Propaganda!!!

Let's see, we're talking about a mistake somewhere on the stock market and the column [convieniently] ends up talking about Greece and how big banks want to lend them huge amounts of money to save them from the brink.

Perhaps this article has something [more] to do with lending money and fear campaigning than a stock market mistake.

Let me clarify this passage for you: "Greek Government will not be able to implement austerity measures" "Austerity measures" basically means a whopping big loan so big that it's repayment schedule in 5 -10 years will force you to seek even more money to stay afloat...effectively keeping you in debt forever. However, a vast number of the Greek population realise what "Austerity measures" actually entails, and are rioting in an attempt to prevent their own government from accepting the IMF (IMF being a conduit for the World Bank - fact!).

I've highlighted the bits which are meant to sway the reader. This is opportunistic fear campaigning within NewsCore, nothing more.

The market plunge amplified concerns that Greece's debt problems would stop global economic recovery.
Fears are running high in the financial markets that the Greek Government will not be able to implement austerity measures that would enable it to contain its debt problems. And, in turn, that the country's problems will hurt other economies in Europe and even the US.
"The market is now realising that Greece is going to go through a depression over the next couple of years," Miller Tabak equity strategist Peter Boockvar said.
"Europe is a major trading partner of ours, and this threatens the entire global growth story."


Don't be fooled, the banks will publicly tout that they are reluctant to loan a distressed country (like Greece) money, but ultimately, that's their agenda...after-all, it's just paper (ones and zeros actually) and costs nothing, but the legal and economic ramifications are huge...just ask the citizens of Iceland and Latvia.

If you don't understand how or why these lending processes work, but you are interested, even how the psychology and propaganda works, I thoroughly recommend this book. It is a history book on how economies accidentally or are deliberately collapsed for financial gain. More than a look into the US Federal Reserve System, it looks into how money works and what is it's purpose.

I do warn you though; it's not a nice book, not in the least.
The Creature from Jekyll Island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._Edward_Griffin

[Robh (Rob)]

"Brokers expect it to be a dark day on the Australian market".

At 1pm, the reaction here seems to be somewhat more "sane".

Rob

[Ric]

I saw that on the news last night.

Someone made a typo, whoops. Half of America's investors just gave birth to kittens.

[Robh (Rob)]

Quote from today's SMH ...
"thousands of trades were executed in a blink by the 'bots which cannot discern between logical and illogical market falls."

Trades were executed automatically by nothing more than advanced computer programs referred to as "algorithm trading spiders". The Dow Jones dropped 1000 points in a few milliseconds.

A case of Chaos Theory causing chaos!
Just how much control are we going to give to computers?

Rob

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Robh

Quote from today's SMH ...
"thousands of trades were executed in a blink by the 'bots which cannot discern between logical and illogical market falls."

Trades were executed automatically by nothing more than advanced computer programs referred to as "algorithm trading spiders". The Dow Jones dropped 1000 points in a few milliseconds.

A case of Chaos Theory causing chaos!
Just how much control are we going to give to computers?

Rob

Methinks the markets need a can of "financial insecticide", and a good dusting!!!

Probably more a case of "Free Market" Economic Theory causing chaos, executed by a bout of silicon insanity

Probably more control than they're ready for....

This is all an eminent example of the old Chinese proverb, "May you live in interesting times"

[GrahamL]

Just how much control are we going to give to computers?

Not much Rob They'll always be a few steps behind us
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1czB...eature=related

Earler test model
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXJZV...eature=related

I here some mob called cyberdyne systems has just finished an even better one

[AndrewJ]

Perhaps we should just take access to money away from the "Traders" and give them something safer to play with for a while,....
like carbon

Andrew

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

I had a feeling during the recession we never had that this would happen. I personally feel recessesions are necessary to give the industry a wake and shake up. Unfortunately recession is a worldwide phenonem and each country tried to halt their own little finacial problem on the outside it was successful but fails in a global view.

The off-shoot is that we could see another recession hit and as Rudd has spent all the money I expect there will be no real solution if it hits again.

We didn't clear out all the badness in the market the last time.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Perhaps we should just take access to money away from the "Traders" and give them something safer to play with for a while,....
like carbon
Andrew

Worth a try. I reckon we should ban men from all positions of power and let the girls have a go; our adversarial nature worked ok in a tribal setting, but we've been wrecking things since the beginnings of civilisation.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Worth a try. I reckon we should ban men from all positions of power and let the girls have a go; our adversarial nature worked ok in a tribal setting, but we've been wrecking things since the beginnings of civilisation.

While I am all for letting the girls take a go at positions of power I mean we men have pretty well made the world a war zone but you are talking about giving the girls the keys to the worlds money. Don't they like to shop just a little do you really think this is wise

[casstony]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

While I am all for letting the girls take a go at positions of power I mean we men have pretty well made the world a war zone but you are talking about giving the girls the keys to the worlds money. Don't they like to shop just a little do you really think this is wise

Hmmm........you have a point; death by shopping. My wife is down at the mall right now and I'm pretty sure she's not buying eyepieces.

[RickS (Rick)]

Originally Posted by Robh

Just how much control are we going to give to computers?

Giving control to computers doesn't worry me. Giving control to software architects and programmers certainly does

Cheers,
Rick.

[Nesti (Mark)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Perhaps we should just take access to money away from the "Traders" and give them something safer to play with for a while,....
like carbon

Andrew

LOL, yeah, legalized and compulsory laundering of other people's money.

....hmmmm, just like superannuation.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Mark

legalized and compulsory laundering of other people's money.

You have it all wrong
Emission/Carbon "Trading" is effectively using newly created "money" to play the stock market. I reckon it looks like the next No Docs loan system, where the traders make money up front, and the rest lose it ( as nothing is produced inbetween )

Just think that 15 yrs ago, one trader brought down Barings bank after a few weeks of "fun".
Then a few years ago 1000s of traders with access to the mortgages of the US Housing bubble nearly brought down the US underwriters.
Then yesterday ( for a short while ) one trader with one button press reduced the value of a big chunk of the world by 10%
Give em carbon ( Govt backed with words ) to play with and i reckon they could bring those countries down before lunchtime.
( And if not, the next lot of grads from the US business schools will )

Andrew

[Nesti (Mark)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Gday Mark



You have it all wrong
Emission/Carbon "Trading" is effectively using newly created "money" to play the stock market. I reckon it looks like the next No Docs loan system, where the traders make money up front, and the rest lose it ( as nothing is produced inbetween )

Just think that 15 yrs ago, one trader brought down Barings bank after a few weeks of "fun".
Then a few years ago 1000s of traders with access to the mortgages of the US Housing bubble nearly brought down the US underwriters.
Then yesterday ( for a short while ) one trader with one button press reduced the value of a big chunk of the world by 10%
Give em carbon ( Govt backed with words ) to play with and i reckon they could bring those countries down before lunchtime.
( And if not, the next lot of grads from the US business schools will )

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

Wrong or right, I might get knocked-off if I keep talking like this.

"where the traders make money up front, and the rest lose it ", if that's the case, it would be even worse, as the increase in the amount of money (paper, ones and zeros, bonds etc) in [proxi] circulation, would still balance with an inflatory effect shortly thereafter (as any assets can be used to offset debt, even speculative returns) - so perhaps the term I should have used was wealth, not money. Then, the trading units will lose their value through the usual underhanded cutting, dicing and diluting process of trade (the laundering process), with the overall value of each carbon trading unit degrading as time progresses...no different to the greenback being 9cents in the original dollar of the late 1940's.

The 'Chicago Carbon Exchange' will be nothing more than a Derivative Market #2...and it will be 10 times Global GDP in 2-3 decades and 1 in 3 shares owners will own the same freekin share units!!!

I feel that what Carbon Trading desperately needed was a dismal failure in Copenhagen, and they got-it. This will put greater emphasis on getting Carbon Trading up and running as soon as possible and as our last great hope...Ding-a-ling-a-ling!!! Jackpot!!! Come in Spinner!!!


Some broader info:

Max Keiser: http://www.youtube.com/user/RussiaTo...35/pL3n_dqRfQg

Gerald Celente: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhaEc_4zuFI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdxgWQWqsS4

TechTicker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0YuESrAu_o

So what happens to the so called "global reserve currency" when Giethner asks Bernanke at the FED start re-print more money for yet another round of Quantitative Easing measures, to purchase yet more 10 year treasury notes and another bucket-load of mortgage-backed securities?!

[AndrewJ]

Gday Mark

So what happens to the so called "global reserve currency"

We just keep digging up more
Just think how the markets could be distorted if we used our coal as a
"black" market in carbon.as who keeps track of all the new carbon?
I saw a good documentary last week re Cocoa beans and the rorts / child slavery behind its supply chain out of the African supply countries.
The really pertinent bit near the end was when they interviewed a "trader".
He bought a few tons of beans whilst they watched, made a profit and sold it, never ever seeing a bean.
When asked if he knew if it was from a valid beans supplier or not he said
No, i just buy and sell beans.

As to the books and references, many are interesting reads,
but the way the economy is now so intertwined at a global level,
i suspect none of the authors really know much
( other than writing a book will make you rich )

Andrew

( off to do a carbon accounting course )

[renormalised (Carl)]

I feel that what Carbon Trading desperately needed was a dismal failure in Copenhagen, and they got-it. This will put greater emphasis on getting Carbon Trading up and running as soon as possible and as our last great hope...Ding-a-ling-a-ling!!! Jackpot!!! Come in Spinner!!!

That's all it ever was, just another money spinner for the rich and infamous. Then they use all the spin in the world to sell it to the great unwashed, who basically haven't a clue at what's being said and pretty much swallow it all hook, line and sinker.

None of them ever intend to do anything about global warming or anything else because it's going to cut in on their profits...and more importantly their power.

You watch what happens...two scenarios might play out depending on how things go. Firstly, they may feign surprise and innocence by saying they didn't realise their previous actions would lead to the problems which end up occurring and that they weren't to blame. Or, secondly, they'll be so powerful, they'll just dictate to everyone what to think or believe about the outcome of their present intransigence. They'll just merrily go about stuffing the planet up with no care in the world about anyone or the planet itself and no one will be in a position to do anything about it.