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  #1  
Old 30-12-2009, 06:10 AM
knight2255
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Need help designing a newt

I'm finishing up polishing a 10.5" F/6 mirror and figured it was time to get to work on my UTA of a truss scope. I already ordered a 1.8 antares secondary thinking it would fit the bill but now I'm not so sure. Here is what I've got so far after drawing up the light cones of both a 1.8 and 2.0 secondary in autocad.

http://i46.tinypic.com/3008dmo.gif
Are you supposed to have the light come to a focus and then expand into the eyepiece as I have it with the 24mm eyepiece?
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Old 30-12-2009, 07:15 AM
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bojan
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Try this little program, it may be helpful for optimising the mechanical parts dimensions.

http://www.dalekeller.net/ATM/newton...t/newtsoft.htm.


What you are doing is OK to avoid vignetting at back end and works for simple eyepieces (single lens design), however, some eyepieces have focal point well inside between the glass elements. Also as far as focal point is concerned, it should be sufficiently outside the tube so that, so for example, you should be able to reach it with the camera sensor, which in most cases is 45.5mm or a bit more from the camera flange (plus you have to allow for focuser length and focussing path).
The general design approach should be to have focal point as far out as possible, without vignetting (blocking the light cone).

I have 10" F5.6, tube is 33cm dia, secondary is 2.18" and focal point is 78mm outside the outer diameter of the tube. Originally I designed it to be 103mm, but later I moved the mirror 25mm backwards to avoid vignetting for 22mm camera sensor (and 1.25" focuser tube). Now I have a slight problem with barlow, so I will have to shorten the focuser for 10~12mm to be able to focus with some short eyepieces.
For the camera (Canon 400D), I will have to use separate, low profile focuser (30mm long, measured from the surface of the tube), this is already drawn in AutoCad and waiting to be made.

Also, be aware that the secondary mirror must be slightly offset from optical axis (away from eyepiece) to fully accommodate the light cone from mirror, in your case it will be ~2mm.

Last edited by bojan; 30-12-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 30-12-2009, 01:30 PM
knight2255
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I finally got NEWT to work on my win 7 machine.

Interesting results.... says I can use a 1.52 secondary with a 2.5" low profile focuser. Since I plan on making the focuser(a wooden crayford) and UTA, it looks like this will work even better! I'll post up pics when I get around to putting everything together. Thanks!
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Old 31-12-2009, 07:37 AM
astro744
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When you say 24mm eyepiece are you referring to field stop diameter or focal length? If the latter you need to work out the FSD from the manufacturers data or from calculation using the apparent field of view.

eg. A 24mm Panoptic has a field stop diameter of 27mm (as does a 32mm Plossl as does a 40mm plossl). A 24mm Plossl would have a field stop diameter of approx 20mm.

Now, have a look at Mel Bartels online diagonal sizing program at http://www.bbastrodesigns.com/diagonal.htm

Either use inches or mm, but note the eyepiece off axis radius will be given in the same units so convert to mm to make it easier.

10.5" = 267mm
fr=6
f.l. = 1600mm
Option 1 diag minor axis of 1.83" = 46.5mm
Option 2 diag minor axis of 2.14" = 54.4mm
Distance from diag to focal plane (subject to tube diameter and focuser height variation (Use NEWT for further refining). Say 9.5" = 241mm. This figure is critical since it cannot be easily changed once you have the tube diameter set and focuser chosen.

The aim is to get no less than 70% illumination at the edge of field so as not to drop too much magnitude. When you plug in the above figures you get the following:

Option 1 (46.5mm diag): 69.92% (say 70%) at the 16mm off axis radius. ie. 32mm field stop diameter.

Look at http://www.televue.com/engine/page.asp?ID=144 for field stop diameters of the Tele Vue eyepieces and you will see a few eyepieces just under and just over the 32mm FSD. eg. 27mm Panoiptic is 30.5mm, 22mm Nagler is 31.1mm, 17mm Ethos is 29.6mm. If you had you heart set on the 21mm Ethos you could still get 65% illumination at the 18mm off axis radius (36mm FSD) position and it would be quite useable with less than 0.5mag drop.

Option 2 (54.4mm diag): 68.29% (say 70%) at the 22mm off axis radius. ie. 44mm field stop diameter.

Again look at http://www.televue.com/engine/page.asp?ID=144 for field stop diameters of the Tele Vue eyepieces and you will see a only the 55mm Plossl and 41mm Panoptic have in excess of 44mm FSD. The 55mm would give you to large an exit pupil and is not really suitable. Therefore if you enjoy low power viewing and you intend on getting a 41mm Panoptic then the 54.5mm diagonal is made for that combination but is an overkill for anything else. A secondary mirror of around 50mm (if available would be ideal) or use the 46.5mm mirror you may be able to get a lower profile focus but make sure you have enough back focus to accommodate a range of eyepieces. Note I am referring to visual only not photo as an extra low focuser is needed for photo further complication the design.

The program is also telling you that if you want maximum exit pupil of 7mm (42mm eyepiece in your case) and 68 deg apparent field (41mm Panoptic is closest to this) you need a 70% illuminated field at the 24.89mm off axis radius position to use a 41mm Panoptic. To get this you need a larger diagonal or move the focuser closer. If you go with a 2.6" diagonal you will then achieve the illumination required at the expense of contrast loss since the diagonal is now 25% of the primary diameter. Unless you are a variable star observer you want to limit your diagonal to about 20% or better if possible but dont undersize too much. For planetary only observing you could easliy use a 1.83 or 1.52" diagonal. Variable stars observing requires even illumination across the field to ensure accurate magnitude estimates.

Another important note too is that your secondary holder will obscure part of the secondary mirror and will give you extra contrast obscruction in the process, (unless you glue the seconday without a holder around it). You have to take this into account and if you do have a holder you will need to measure the non-obstructed minor axis and use that in the calculations for illumination. Also do not be too concerned about secondary offset now as you can adjust the position of the mirror later if at all. The offset is to give you a circular illumination ratrher than a slightly elongated one. The effect is very negligible at f6.

The Mel Bartels site http://www.bbastrodesigns.com/ has a lot more ATM goodies and is very informative. I hope all this has helped to clear up and not cloud up any design issues you are having. Enjoy!
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  #5  
Old 08-01-2010, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knight2255 View Post
I finally got NEWT to work on my win 7 machine.
How did you get it to work? I tried running NEWT on mine (64-bit) with various compatibility modes, but without success.

Cheers!
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