Choice of first scope

[yagon]

I'm new to astronomy. I currently use my un-aided eyes and a pair of cheap binoculars. I've now decided to buy my first scope , and I'd like to hear this forum's views on the right choice for me.

I've a budget of about $1,000 to $1,500. Small size is important for me because of portability and storage issues. I'd like an alround scope, but I like the idea of a scope that can also be used for terrestrial purposes. Most of my viewing will be in light-polluted Sydney, with occasional country trips.

I understand that buying any scope is a game of trading compromises, but because of my limited experience, it is difficult for me to assess which compromise to make for a first scope.

Based on my research to date, these are my thoughts on realistic options and their potential compromises:

1. 100mm to 120mm achromatic refractor. Chromatic aberration? Size?
2. 80mm apochromatic refractor. Aperture?
3. 127mm or 150mm maksutov-cassegrain. Narrow field of view? Cool-down time?

I've not included a big dob because of portability and storage issues.

What are the forum's views on what is the best scope for my requirements?

[lost_in_space]

I would be looking at something like the Willams Optics Zenithstar 80 or the cheaper Orion ED80, and spend the balance of the budget on a good AltAz mount which will be ok for astro and terrestrial use, a good diagonal erecting prism and some quality EP's

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Hi Yagon,

You seem to have identified all the issues. No doubt people will chime in with some good, sensible suggestions. However, something a bit left field that you might nonetheless want to consider (especially if you already have a tripod) is a bigger pair of astro binocs for wide field viewing, and something like Orion's 150mm mak-cass for planets, etc (OTA $999 from Bintel). Neither would take up much room.

I'll be interested to read other responses.

Cheers,

Brian.

PS Which Maton?

[Muddy Diver]

Yagon

I cant vouch for the Celestron Nexstar 4GT over others as I'm a newbie also. But it seems to fit your budget and scope. I am also coping with light pollution in Menai but for size, ease and speed of set up you cant go to wrong. The tracking is not fantastic but for your money at least you have some, with a compterised goto database to boot. Take a look at the link below.

P.S. these are selling in the Australian Geographic shops at the moment. Or were.

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/nx4gt.htm

Good luck

Barry

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Yagon, if you have not seen an 8" Dob first hand you should go to Bintel and check one out because it will show you a hell of a lot more than any of the other options you are considering. Even 6" GS Dob will (but only Andrews have those). They are both quite portable and will cost a fraction of your budget. Spend the rest on good eyepieces.

But if you must have an even more compact scope, the ED80 from MyAstroshop on an AZ3 or EQ5 mount would be very nice. The ED80 is the best of the false-colour-free refractors. And leaves you plenty of change for both must and nice-to have accessories.

If you are willing to put up with some false colour, buy the biggest achromat you can afford/manage from AOE.

Otherwise a 5" Mak + AZ3 or EQ5, or 6" Mak + EQ5. The 6" + EQ5 will leave little or no change for eyepieces and other accessories.

Dob is where my heart is though, otherwise I'd go a 5 or 6" Mak.

[yagon]

Thanks for all the great feedback. I must say that I am leaning towards the quality 80mm scope, probably the Skywatcher ED80 or similar.

A good 80mm scope would be a scope that I could keep for a long time: I have noticed that a lot of experienced astronomers have a good 80mm refractor in their quiver of scopes. I typically have a preferance for simple but good quality equipment.

From my reading, a good 80mm scope would provide excellent rich-field views, good moon and planetary viewing, but would be limited for deep sky viewing due to the small aperture. I would always have the option to supplement it later with a big compound scope if I really get passionate about this hobby. I think I would use an 80mm scope a lot.

Can anyone comment on the aperture limitations of an 80mm scope? What limitations will this place on me?

[yagon]

PS

My maton is an early 90s 'Australian' model. It's made from Australian timber (QLD Maple being the main), and has a great warm tone, more mid-rangeish that a traditional acoustic guitar. It's a keeper: I hope I'll be playing this guitar in 50 years from now, even though it's got dings and bite marks from my dog!

I am currently selling all my electrical guitar equipment: my rock'n'roll days are over, and I need to money to buy the scope!

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....MESE%3AIT&rd=1

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Yes, the ED80 is an excellent scope, and depending on the viewing/astro-photographing habits you develop, you might keep it for good even if you get a bigger scope, because a bigger scope will never give you views as wide ("rich-field") as the ED80 can. I used to own one of these scopes and I was amazed how much an 80mm scope could show me and how good the image quality was.

But you are right that it would be lacking on deep sky, and also on planets, because of lack of aperture. But it is probably as good a scope as you can get at 80mm and it is better value now than ever before. If you decide to go for it, try and get the MyAstroshop $549 special with the tube rings and dovetail mounting plate. Get an AZ3 or Vixen Porta (better!) mount for it, if you want max portability, or an EQ5 if you have a reason to want an EQ.

You will also need a diagonal and some good eyepieces. Given your $1500 budget, the ED80 is probably your best choice if you want a most complete quality setup, without having to skimp on eyepieces and/or other accessories.

...
But check out a dob first. (Sorry, I can't help myself. I'm hooked. )

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Muddy Diver

Yagon

P.S. these are selling in the Australian Geographic shops at the moment. Or were.

http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/nx4gt.htm

Good luck

Barry

Yagon/Barry

FWIW the LAST thing I would recommend is buying a telescope from a store like Dyck Smith, Tandy, K-Mart, Big W, or Australian Geographic and for that matter 98% of camera stores worldwide, for the simple reason the staff working in those stores haven't the foggiest idea what they are selling, when it comes to telescopes and astronomy related equipment and accesories.

If you want to buy a telescope buy it from a store, either shopfront or online, that specialises in telescopes, accesories and astronomy related equipment. There are enough of them around and you will not pay any extra in $$$$ terms and the support service and advice will be infinitely superior.

Three reliable dealers with competitive prices in Sydney are:-

Binocular and Telescope Shop www.bintelshop.com.au

My Astro Shop www.myastroshop.com.au

Andrews Communications http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

with my preference being the 1st two, in terms of advice and after sales service. Both of these dealers are owned and staffed by very experienced astronomers

My recommendation based on the parameters you have specified would be the Skywatcher ED80 (APO) which My Astro Shop had on special for $499 (or thereabouts) including rings and dovetail plate and then mounting that on a good Alt/AZ mount. I think that special has finished but all the 3 stores I have mentioned can supply the scope and mount and do you a good deal on it, enough change out of $1500 for a couple of better quality eyepieces and some astronomy books and charts.

CS-John B

[acropolite (Phil)]

Correction there, My Astro shop doesn't have any stock of the ED80, but I managed to get one from Andrews they're $549 including rings. I would recommend the same as JohnB as that OTA will serve you very well if you decide to persue astrophotography.

[mickoking]

I would reccomend a 80mm ED refractor for the simple reason is that you will want to keep it if and/or when you move upto a larger scope. I presently have 3 'scopes in my quiver all with a different purpose. From light polluted Sydney Double stars, Star clusters, planets and the moon would be fine. The advantage with a compact 80mm refractor is you can easily transport it to a dark sky sight no sweat when the need arises. Also don't dismiss something like a 200mm (8") Dob. They are popular on this forum and as a previous owner of that sized 'scope I can vouch for how much stuff you can see thru them, they are also reasonably portable.

Astronomy is a fun hobby and even a lifestyle don't worry too much about equipment and don't forget ask heaps of questions.

Cheers

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

If your budget is up to $1500 why not get both an 80 on an Alt/Az and and 8" Dob

Saxon 80 ED approx 550
GS -680 w/crayford 500
Az3 mount 240

Big aperture scope for home use with quality refractor to take to the country.
Mind you that doen't leave you much for eyepieces

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Good thinking Paul! AZ3 is just $179 from AOE, last time I checked!
The Dob will also come with eyepieces you can use in both scopes.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Sweet If I didn't have an ED80 already I'd go for that package myself

[Striker (Tony)]

I'll keep it short... ED80

I'll keep it short too, dont buy a GS dob, they are poorly manufactured.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

What dob would you recommend instead, Nightshift?

Originally Posted by janoskiss

What dob would you recommend instead, Nightshift?

I only own a GSO dob so I can't make a recommendation on what to buy, only on what not to buy, the GSO rusted instantly, the mirror coating is average to say the least, the dob mount is chipboard and absorbs moisture, the AZ mount is sloppy and hard to use, requires modification the day you pick it up. I have spent many dollars and hours re-manufacturing it to a point that I am now happy (except with the rust) but sure can not give the unit any praise.

[dhumpie]

Funny that you (Nightshift) have so many problems with your GS dob. I have had mine since a week before X-Mas and don't have any of the problems you mentioned. And all the reviews out there say they are an excellent value. As pertaining to the question about 80mm scopes, I love my Orion 80ST as a quick look scope but I would not recommend any 80mm scope no matter how well made as an only scope. 80mm is just 80mm and is very very limited in my opinion. If you can swing it I start with at least a 100mm scope (100ED???). But your best bet would be a 6 or 8 inch dob. Best bang for the buck and not even that hard to handle (the 6 incher can be carried all setup in one sitting). Alternatively you could get a GS 6" f/5 EQ for $499 from Andrew's and have money left over for tracking motors, etc. Those are highly portable too. I used to observe from my apartment balcony with just such a scope. Trust me if you want detail in DSO's and planets, go 100mm and above for refractors and 6" and above for reflectors.

Darren

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Nightshift,

Several thousand people worldwide disagree with you.

Let me also say that compared to what was previously available, the GSO dobs and those from Synta as well are an enormous improvement quality wise, both optical and mechanical from those produced in past years. In actual fact, for the price, amateur astronomers have never been able to buy such a good quality telescope for such a small outlay. You can currently buy a 10" GSO dob which gives good performance for the equivalent of the average workers weekly pay (I earn much less than average so I gotta save up for 2 weeks for a 10" dobbie). 30 years ago a 6" primary mirror alone cost the equivalent of a months pay, over $400. We can turn the clock forward a little to the dobs sold a decade ago, which came with no finder, no eyepieces, a mount that was not even close to orthagonal (as they were not CNC cut), a chipboard mirror cell with poor ventilation that took 4 hours or more for the primary mirror to cool, a secondary mirror support that was exceptionally difficult to adjust and a focuser that was garbage.

No the current GS scopes are not as good as a premium telescope, they are also not a premium price. What they offer is exceptional value for money.

Yagon,

If you want to buy a GS scope they come highly recommended from me at least in terms of the performance level in relation to cost.

CS-John B