Abuse of basic human rights and violation

[Marclau (Marcel)]

O'K, i'll start the tread as requested by Peter.

Are we allowed to mention Guantanamo Bay?

Do some societies/governments (including Western) abuse populations and strip them of their basic human rights???

You will note that in this first post, I will remain politically correct....(for the time being)......

[Octane (Humayun)]

This thread won't last long as it will inevitably devolve into political mudslinging and then the religious debate will ensue.

Political/religious discussions are discouraged as people get hot under the collar, things are said which would most likely not be said face-to-face, and, as a result, people get upset. It's divisive.

Let's keep this forum for what it's supposed to be: astronomy.

Whilst I'm venting, I don't understand why news articles are posted here. Everyone who has access to IceInSpace, surely has access to news web sites and can read about what's going on in the world themselves. We don't need daily threads reiterating what's going on in the media (the exception being astronomy-related news). At least the recent global warming and climate change threads have some chords which are in tune with a lot of us -- being amateur astronomers -- I'm sure all of us actually care for the Earth.

Regards,
Humayun

[marki]

Agree totally Humayun.

Mark

[Marclau (Marcel)]

I disagree.....only joking............relax......

No, your right.......i only started this upon Peter's request.........

See, I was like a scientist and following the crowd...being controlled where the $$$$$ was............hahhahahaha enough said...........all in good fun.............

Ummm what about a thread about the star when this little baby named Jesus was born??

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Marclau

O'K, i'll start the tread as requested by Peter.

Not really...it simply had nothing to do with Climate change

Originally Posted by Marclau

Are we allowed to mention Guantanamo Bay?

Do some societies/governments (including Western) abuse populations and strip them of their basic human rights???

Yes and Yes.

Of course most of the Guantanamo inmates were detained after running a cookie drive for the girl-guides of Kabul....

Frankly....I think this is a waste of time.

Have you spent some time in a country where Sharia laws rule or Zimbabwe or seen the result of making a little too much political noise in Bejing....then compare your experience to a few months spent in the USA.

Lord knows its not perfect, but least they have a Bill or Rights, something sadly lacking in Oz.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Lord knows its not perfect, but least they have a Bill or Rights, something sadly lacking in Oz.

That is definitely true. Australians have no constitutional right to the freedom of speech, but then, neither do most modern western countries either for that matter.

As to Guantanamo Bay - no matter *what* crime a person commits, they are, or should be, entitled to not only a trial, but a fair trial, and to be innocent until proven guilty. Guantanamo Bay does not do this, and no matter how that idiot George W Bush tried to twist things, it violated human rights very badly. Of course, no other country had the balls to stand up to the US and tell them so. That's the sad thing - money and trade are worth far more these days than the right thing.

Tell me Peter - why should US made software bought in Australia, under Australian consumer laws for that matter, be legally allowed to bar me from reselling to say, someone in Iran? The US is nothing but a 200lb bully. Good on Iran and North Korea for standing up to the world bully. I hope they give the US curry.

I'd like to see the UN dumped and a new organisation formed, where veto votes and the member council are dumped and *every* single country, irrespective of GPD, size or population is treated the same votewise. Then we'll see proper sanctions against countries like Israel which continuously break international laws, commit human rights atrocities etc. The arrogance of both the US and Israel is worrying, worse that no other government has the balls to stand up to them.

There, I've been baited to say my bit. Bait taken

Dave

[Marclau (Marcel)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Not really...it simply had nothing to do with Climate change



Yes and Yes.

Of course most of the Guantanamo inmates were detained after running a cookie drive for the girl-guides of Kabul....

Frankly....I think this is a waste of time.

Have you spent some time in a country where Sharia laws rule or Zimbabwe or seen the result of making a little too much political noise in Bejing....then compare your experience to a few months spent in the USA.

Lord knows its not perfect, but least they have a Bill or Rights, something sadly lacking in Oz.

Actually, I'll be honest here and remain sincere, I have probably seen more of the world then yourself........my father worked for NASA as a mathemitician and then working as a proof reader for many years and spent over 20 years travelling with my family where ever my father was needed, and I have family back home in the Netherlands who have worked for the International Court of Justice in The Hague. I have also spent many years travelling Asia (all due to working in I.T) and also in the middle east.

I'm actually talking about Western world and our so called freedoms. I have many more news articles (unfortunately in Dutch) about abuse. You see, in Holland, we have much more freedom of the press then what we have here in Oz or the U.S

In many instances, many many times over, the U.S are called to appear but western press in Oz and U.S simply dont print the news articles.......

Ohhh I forgot to mention that my father and I were under house arrest in South Africa back in 1974 for trying to help an Africaaner be served his paid meal in a restuarant in Johannesburg.

[Marclau (Marcel)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

That is definitely true. Australians have no constitutional right to the freedom of speech, but then, neither do most modern western countries either for that matter.

As to Guantanamo Bay - no matter *what* crime a person commits, they are, or should be, entitled to not only a trial, but a fair trial, and to be innocent until proven guilty. Guantanamo Bay does not do this, and no matter how that idiot George W Bush tried to twist things, it violated human rights very badly. Of course, no other country had the balls to stand up to the US and tell them so. That's the sad thing - money and trade are worth far more these days than the right thing.

Tell me Peter - why should US made software bought in Australia, under Australian consumer laws for that matter, be legally allowed to bar me from reselling to say, someone in Iran? The US is nothing but a 200lb bully. Good on Iran and North Korea for standing up to the world bully. I hope they give the US curry.

I'd like to see the UN dumped and a new organisation formed, where veto votes and the member council are dumped and *every* single country, irrespective of GPD, size or population is treated the same votewise. Then we'll see proper sanctions against countries like Israel which continuously break international laws, commit human rights atrocities etc. The arrogance of both the US and Israel is worrying, worse that no other government has the balls to stand up to them.

There, I've been baited to say my bit. Bait taken

Dave

I could not have said it better myself.......and I'm 260lbs......what have you got towards fat people.......hahahaha

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Octane

This thread won't last long as it will inevitably devolve into political mudslinging and then the religious debate will ensue.

Political/religious discussions are discouraged as people get hot under the collar, things are said which would most likely not be said face-to-face, and, as a result, people get upset. It's divisive.

Let's keep this forum for what it's supposed to be: astronomy.

Whilst I'm venting, I don't understand why news articles are posted here. Everyone who has access to IceInSpace, surely has access to news web sites and can read about what's going on in the world themselves. We don't need daily threads reiterating what's going on in the media (the exception being astronomy-related news). At least the recent global warming and climate change threads have some chords which are in tune with a lot of us -- being amateur astronomers -- I'm sure all of us actually care for the Earth.

Regards,
Humayun

Couldn't have put it better myself.

There's a lot of forums out in the wild internet that are DEDICATED to discussing political matters.

Fortunately, this isn't one of them.

As part of being a community and getting to know each other, sometimes we want to talk about things outside our normal daily sphere of topics here on IceInSpace - and that's fine, but today this isn't one of those topics.

Locking this thread.