Meade DSI

virmana · #1 24-09-2005, 11:01 PM

Hi Everyone!

I've been lurking in iceinspace for awhile now reading the posts and would like to say how very useful these forums are. I was wondering if any of you have any opinions and or experience on the new Meade DSI?

Thanks

James

h0ughy (David) · #2 25-09-2005, 12:20 AM

nope , I have bought one but not used it yet. Sad isn't it.

no comments Mike and Paul!!!!!!!!!

westsky · #3 25-09-2005, 01:13 AM

Hi James , welcome to the forum,
By the "New DSI" I guess you mean the DSI Pro?
I don't have one of those but do have some experence with the DSI-C (colour)
If it's your first foray into digital imaging then the C is cheap enough to buy as a learning camera, it is capable in the right hands of taking excellent images, when I say the right hands I mean somebody who understands image processing, this is the most challenging part of digital imaging, sadly I find it a bigger challenge than most but I have manged to get at least one DSI C shot published which was a bit of a surprise:-))
The DSI-C can certainly collect the data, it is a very sensitive camera.

The DSI Pro is a monochrome camera, so if you want to do colour imaging then you must use filters, The Pro is 4 times more sensitive then the C, so Data collection should be no problem, there will be more processing with the Pro than with the C
as images will need to be processed and stacked.

As to cost the C is around $500.00 I don't know the price of the Pro but have heard it is around $1000, but I could be hundreds off it may well be cheaper.Anybody else know?
So I guess at $500 the C is affordable
If it is the Pro you are interested in then for a similar amount of money I would consider a Canon 350D, body only can be bought for around $900 I think maybe cheaper now its been a while since I last checked the price.A modified 350D is around the $16- 1700
With the Canon you will still have to learn some processing but proberbly not as much as with the DSI.

The DSI's have two things over the 350D, the Meade software is nothing short of brilliant, you can take as many long exposure images as your mount will allow and the software will stack them and give you a single image to process, or using the Fits format will give you the RGB images stacked as one for each colour.
I have taken up to 4 minutes unguided with my EQ6 and I generally get up to 1 minute with my EQ5 unguided with a good drift alignment, so if you have a good tracking mount it is possible to get decent images using the software without guiding.

The other thing you can't do with the Canon is Autoguide, the DSI-C is a great autoguider, I recently did a comparison of three cameras, the Toucam , Meade LPI and the DSI C
I used a 4" F10 refractor as guide scope and the results where interesting.
With the Toucam I could see 1 guide star on the laptop, same with the LPI,
with the DSI I could see 6 stars on the screen and all stars where clear and very usable as guide stars, testing was done on the same object same scope same night.

hope this helps

David.

iceman (Mike) · #4 25-09-2005, 06:49 AM

Hi James!

You live at Asquith, you should come up to our central coast observing nights! There's one next weekend.. why don't you come along?

There's a review of the DSI and DSI Pro in the Oct issue of AS&T, if that helps. I'm also planning to borrow h0ughy's DSI off him and test it out

mick pinner · #5 25-09-2005, 11:04 AM

l've bought a new DSI Pro but haven't had a night clear enough to bother setting up yet, the big advantage with the new system is the drizzle technology that will automatically align your images before stacking to compensate for field rotation.
Cost $750.00 inc filters. This seems to be the normal price everywhere.

westsky · #6 25-09-2005, 11:25 AM

Hi Mick , thanks for letting me know the price.When they where first released O/S a retailer here told me they expected them to be around the $1000.it's good to see they are much cheaper.
The Drizzle technology is available for the DSI-C, Meade released the software this month, as yet I haven't tried the Drizzle feature but as I don't have an Alt Az mount I am not sure if it will be of any use to me, I should take the time to learn more about it though.
Another plus for the DSI, is that you can image and autoguide at the same time
but you are limited to 15 sec exposures, I would like to see Meade extend this to say 30 sec if it were possible.
cheers
David.

mick pinner · #7 25-09-2005, 11:33 AM

l bought the DSI Pro mainly because of the drizzle feature, l won't really get heavily into photography just take the occassional photo of conjunctions, occultations and some deep sky stuff, this hopefully means l will not have to put my scope on a wedge and get into ridiculous viewing positions, hopefully the processing software won't be to hard to understand.

#8 25-09-2005, 11:38 AM

the drizzle feature can also be used in post processing, so it'll work on all three camera's LPI, DSI, DSI-Pro

regards,CS

westsky · #9 25-09-2005, 11:59 AM

For a user manual on the drizzle feature try this site, as yet I haven't had a indepth read of it but just a quick look through but it seems interesting.
http://astro.hcadvantage.com/Articles.aspx
the manual's are in a PDF file so they do take a little while to load even on ADSL
cheers
David.

rumples riot · #10 25-09-2005, 12:17 PM

I bought a DSI last year and used it once, I found it difficult to use and I did use it only for planetary imaging. I have seen great images taken with it and as has been said in the right hands it will work a treat. If I don't sell it soon, then I might try using it during the warmer weather on some DSO's.

Everything depends on what you want out of it and indeed expect.

westsky · #11 25-09-2005, 01:00 PM

Hi Paul ,I tried the DSI on the planets and moon but couldn't get any sort of a decent image on these objects.
Since I installed the new software with Drizzle I have been able to get a good moon shot same scope and setup just the different software. I think some changes where made to allow the DSI to take good planetary images, try the new software you may find it does a better job on the planets.You can get it here
http://www.meade.com/autostar/update/index.html

cheers
david.

JohnH · #12 25-09-2005, 02:21 PM

Hi James!

I have an LPI not a DSI and am partly happy - I find the software to be unreliable which is not what you want when imaging but the hardware is good. I believe the drizzle feature does more than compensate for field rotation for ALT-AZ scopes - by nudging the image around on the sensor it allows a greater resoultion to be simulated - somewhat the reverse of anti-aliasing as I understand it. I believe the software can be used with images from any source (so long as they are the right format).

And welcome to the forums - I am in Hornsby Heights so you must be my closest fellow iiser, perhaps we should share observing some time? I am really new to this - my main interest is astrophotography but I am a bit limited by my curent setup an ETX90 but an upgrade is on my wish list...

John

westsky · #13 25-09-2005, 03:53 PM

Hi John , there have been a number of people who have had issue's with the software,
Most have been fixed by installing the updates, the update for the DSI will work with your LPI I don't know if this will allow you to use the drizzle feature with the LPI.
Main problem for most was using USB 1 ports, USB 2 is much better.
I had problems at first, the comp kept asking for the LPI drivers everytime I plugged the LPI in, I copied the drivers to a folder and since then it hasn't asked me for them again.
The best part of the recent update is that it allows you to use both the LPI and DSI at the same time, this way you can guide with the LPI and image with the DSI.

cheers
David.

virmana · #14 25-09-2005, 04:50 PM

Thanks everyone, I'm after the DSI Colour, Bintel sell it for 499 which seems to be the going rate so I'll get it for myself as a christmas present. I'd like to use it for Planetary imaging and DSOs so it looks like it'll do both well with a reasonable learning curve and some software patches. Does anyone have any images captured with either the DSI C or Pro they'd like to post onto the site?

Bizarre as this sounds I don't even have a scope yet, I've got an LXD75 8" SN on order and am anxiously waiting delivery. Once I've learned how to use it and don't look like a total goose I'll catch up with you all at an observing night.

Thanks again for all your replies and sound advice

James

mick pinner · #15 25-09-2005, 05:05 PM

David, how sucessful is guiding with the LPI, l've tried a few star shots and bright open clusters and got absolutely nothing, what can you lock on to to guide with.

westsky · #16 25-09-2005, 05:43 PM

Mick, the biggest problem is finding a guide star, the LPI does not have the sensitivity of the DSI, I found that it is similar to the ToUcam. If you can get a good guide star then it guides as well as the DSI.
with my setup I mount my scopes side by side, I use a pan and tilt head for the guide scope this allows me to go off axis to get a guide star if there is not one close to the imaging object that I can see with the LPI.

James, if you go back to around Feb / March in the Deep sky forum, you will find a few DSI images I did when I first got the camera, nothing flash here but not to bad for a first time effort, I haven't been doing any DSI images off late but plan to start again as soon as I learn abit more about processing.
There are some great images on the previous web site that had the Drizzle manual listed.

David.

beren · #17 25-09-2005, 06:45 PM

Mick ive used the LPI with Guidedog and i find it impossible to find a star other then a bright 1st mag star ,with K3CCDtools its better eg:with M42 and the trap stars nothing shows on guidedog with K3 they show up

rumples riot · #18 25-09-2005, 08:07 PM

Thanks David, might have a look at that site. I really want to use this camera before I sell it.

westsky · #19 25-09-2005, 10:33 PM

Your'e welcome Paul , I think it's a must to update the software for these cameras.everytime I have done so they just get easier to use.

Beren, I found the same problem with Guidedog and to a lesser extent with K3,
I use the Meade software and don't have a problem as you do get the longer exposure mode with the Meade software, you are stuck using the default exposure time with Guidedog.

Mick I just re- read your'e last message and are you saying that even with a bright star in the FOV that you can't see anything?
If this is the case there are a couple of things to try.
Some of the first LPI's had cable problems, the way to tell is point the LPI at a light sorce and see if the image on screen changes, you should see it go from black to white.
Focus, it can be hard to get proper focus.
Try using a 6 or 7mm EP on a bright star and this should get you close, at least close enough to see the out of focus star. I pull my cheap 7mm back about 5mm from being fully inserted and this is almost perfect focus.
Failing that point the scope at the moon and go through the entire focus range, but the 6/7mm EP should do the job.

regards
David.

JohnH · #20 26-09-2005, 10:12 AM

David,

To be clear on this point:

The LPI/DSI work more reliably with computers equipped with a USB 2 hub; there is no variation in performance between individual USB ports on a given PC (except you must have the camera installed for the port).

I have heard this comment before I have also seens this behaviour attributed to the cable (must be capable of supplying the power) but it is of little consolation to me as my laptop has USB 1 and I will not be changing it any time soon. I suppose I could add a USB2 PCMCIA card (would fix speed but not power issues?) or connect a (powered) USB2 hub to my USB 1 port (would fix power but not speed) and get better reliability, anyone done that? It is very annoying when if freezes - especially as I bought this gear to guide with more than for imaging - this forces me to use GuideDog rather than ASSuite which does not seem to suffer the same issues. Looks to me like ASS is a VB app and thus has performance issues (poor multitasking/single thread design).