Qld oil spill

[DeanoNZL (Adrian)]

Shame to see such a large quantity of oil covering the coastline and wildlife.
Here's hoping they can get it completly cleared up.
Made worse by the winds from the recent storm blowing it back onshore!

[marki]

Originally Posted by DeanoNZL

Shame to see such a large quantity of oil covering the coastline and wildlife.
Here's hoping they can get it completly cleared up.
Made worse by the winds from the recent storm blowing it back onshore!

It's a real shame. What is worse is that it could have been prevented. What kind of nutta would steer a ship straight into a cyclone??

[PCH (Paul)]

Well, as an ex (pommie) merchant navy officer with 10 years service with a reputable company, I can say that we would go to great lengths to avoid this sort of weather. Or we'd stay in port a day extra if it were waiting for us right outside the port perhaps. Having said this, I'd have to add that shipping companies generally don't like to stay extra in port, or navigate around weather, unless it's essential, - as the costs of doing this are enormous. But safety always came first.

However, that was back in the days of reputable companies with the highest of standards. And sad to say, for economy reasons, these days much of the world's shipping is chartered out to cheaper foreign flags of convenience with very little in the way of safety standards, and staffed by people who may not be the best at their jobs.

Nowadays, if you want a cargo of oil to go from A to B, you just farm the job out to the cheapest bidder and all the worry of how to get it there is suddenly someone else's. You don't need to own ships, hire staff or any of the things shipping companies used to do.

If I can say this without offending anyone, the Greeks used to be notorious for this in my days at sea. Many's the time we would encounter a Greek ship coming towards us at sea, and as we got closer we might get a call on VHF from the Officer on the Bridge asking all sorts of questions relating to navigation, equipment repair etc - even, on several occasions, requests for a current position Can you imagine the safety implications of floating along without knowing accurately where you are - aarghh

In fairness, it wasn't always Greeks. Sometimes it might be a West African or other third world nationality. But it would never have been a European, American (meaning USA) or even Australian.

So with this sort of standard, it surprises me that there aren't more disasters to be quite frank.

At least this time they seem to be going to the ship's oinsurance for the cost of cleaning up the mess. That might make them re-think who they insure and what standards they expect before offering insurance.

In the meantime, thousands of seabirds and creatures will die because of their stupidity. The Captain should be keel-hauled - only they don't do that any more. OK well make hime wear a IIS Beanie in public (sorry Mike - just a joke )

Cheers,

[marki]

I am certainly no expert on shipping far from it. But how can steering a cargo ship around a storm or docking for saftey reasons compare to the possible costs of loss of cargo, crew or even the ship itself. In any case this is going to cost a lot more then they could have made by delivering the cargo surely?

Ciao Mark

[PCH (Paul)]

I think you may have missed the point Mark.

All I was saying is that safety of the ship - meaning the ship, the cargo and the people on it, was of paramount importance. And so to avoid ANY accidents, especially in this sort of weather, they would avoid the storm by staying in port or avoiding it by steering around it.

I just pointed out for completeness that to do any of these things was a costly option, and that this would be likely to influence less reputable companies into just risking it.

Hope this clarifies

[marki]

Thanks for clarifying that. I guess my real question is what would the rough cost be in dollars to put a ship into safe port knowing that time would be lost and extra fuel used as well as docking costs etc Vs the cost in dollars of a disaster.

[PCH (Paul)]

Hi Mark,

well I guess in simple terms, if the cargo gets to it's destination on time, maximum profit goes to the cargo owner.

All delays come off the profit figure. For example, an extra day's stay in port will cost several thousand dollars. At sea, the ship costs (back when I was at sea) around 10k (pounds sterling) a day to run (all inclusive). So you can see from this that cargo owners will not want an extra minutes delay where at all possible. There would usually be some arrangement to share delay costs between vessel owner and cargo owner, - but they're still significant costs.

I'm not advocating this line of thinking - I'm just passing on approximate facts.

Interestingly, my very last ever trip to sea was not with the British company I'd worked with for years, but was with a Hong Kong based company (nice brand new ship though !) staffed by pommie Officers and South Korean crew (these guys were absolute top guys ). For getting a cargo of wheat safely and on time from Canada to Jordan, the grateful owner (a Lebanese gentleman) provided our ships captain with a very respectably sized ingot of solid gold. This was not your standard ounce - I mean a serious sized 'lump' of gold that was heavy to pick up. The skipper was totally flabbergasted as, with his old (reputable) company just like all of ours', this sort of thing just didn't happen. Still, - that didn't stop him accepting it

Cheers

[marki]

Thanks mate, it gives me some perspective to work on. How do the insurers react to this sort of thing?

[PCH (Paul)]

I would imagine they'd pretend the phone lines are down with the weather for the first few weeks to give the directors time to skin out to the new Bermudan Headquarters

Seriously though, you can imagine they'd be doing everything in their power to avoid paying out, by looking for ways to lay the blame elsewhere. But usually these payouts go all the way to court, and even then the insurers would be underwritten - sort of insurance on insurance - just hope the sucker at the end of the chain isn't AIG

Cheers,