Questions about violins.

Dog Star (Phil) · #1 16-02-2009, 03:20 PM

As I mentioned on Gargoyle Steve's thread concerning Earth Hour/dark skies, I have been showing a few people the view of the night skies through my scope.One of them, on hearing of my interest in violins and playing them, has very kindly lent me hers, as she has no time at present to learn how to play.
It's been over 13 years since I played one myself, and I was never any more than a self taught beginner myself, and it's amazing how much you can forget in 13 years. To say that it's a time consuming challenge is an under statement. Nevertheless, I'm going to persevere.
I have a technical problem, however. The damned thing won't stay in tune!
That is to say, I can tune it up correctly, but the tuning pegs won't hold, and the minute I exert bow pressure on the string, the peg slips in the head and the string goes slack.
We only have one luthier in town and on phoning him he told me that it's just a cheap violin and would need the head to be machined at a cost of about $200. That didn't sit real well with me for several reasons. (At least 200 of them.)
I was thinking that I might remove the pegs and try roughing them up a bit with a bit of coarse sand paper, or maybe even apply a bit of blu-tak to the pegs to stop them slipping, but obviously I don't want to do anything that may ultimately damage it as it's not my instrument.
The tuning pegs, I should explain, aren't the "rack and pinion" type that you find on guitars. They're a wooden corkscrew friction type fit.
Anyone have any ideas?

erick (Eric) · #2 16-02-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Star

I have a technical problem, however. The damned thing won't stay in tune!

You need a collimation tool?

erick (Eric) · #3 16-02-2009, 03:25 PM

Random un-educated thoughts to try. A bit of the bow rosin rubbed on a peg? Some non-slip type thin stuff - paper? - wrapped around a peg.

toryglen-boy (Duncan) · #4 16-02-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Star

As I mentioned on Gargoyle Steve's thread concerning Earth Hour/dark skies, I have been showing a few people the view of the night skies through my scope.One of them, on hearing of my interest in violins and playing them, has very kindly lent me hers, as she has no time at present to learn how to play.
It's been over 13 years since I played one myself, and I was never any more than a self taught beginner myself, and it's amazing how much you can forget in 13 years. To say that it's a time consuming challenge is an under statement. Nevertheless, I'm going to persevere.
I have a technical problem, however. The damned thing won't stay in tune!
That is to say, I can tune it up correctly, but the tuning pegs won't hold, and the minute I exert bow pressure on the string, the peg slips in the head and the string goes slack.
We only have one luthier in town and on phoning him he told me that it's just a cheap violin and would need the head to be machined at a cost of about $200. That didn't sit real well with me for several reasons. (At least 200 of them.)
I was thinking that I might remove the pegs and try roughing them up a bit with a bit of coarse sand paper, or maybe even apply a bit of blu-tak to the pegs to stop them slipping, but obviously I don't want to do anything that may ultimately damage it as it's not my instrument.
The tuning pegs, I should explain, aren't the "rack and pinion" type that you find on guitars. They're a wooden corkscrew friction type fit.
Anyone have any ideas?

put a Floyd Rose locking trem on there

Dog Star (Phil) · #5 16-02-2009, 03:28 PM

Thanks for that Erick.

If nothing else, it at least gave me a laugh.
No ideas though on stopping me from coming completely un-strung?

Dog Star (Phil) · #6 16-02-2009, 03:31 PM

G'day TGB,
Can you elaborate as to what a Floyd Rose locking trem is?
Must confess that I've never heard of one.

erick (Eric) · #7 16-02-2009, 03:36 PM

Google it! He's funnier than me, I think?

OK, I found:-

"If you have a problem with the wood pegs slipping, you'll need to either apply peg drops (available at most music stores) or rub a little rosin dust (from your rosin cake) on each peg where it inserts into the peghead."

So maybe my idea wasn't that far out?

erick (Eric) · #8 16-02-2009, 03:38 PM

A bit more, thanks Google!

"

If your pegs are slipping or are too tight to securely adjust the strings, you may want to purchase peg compound (also called “peg dope”), an inexpensive commercial product.
If you don’t have peg compound and need a temporary quick fix for slipping or tight pegs, you may want to try tips some violin teachers use: for sticking pegs, pull the peg partially out, and rub pencil graphite on the sticking part of the peg. For loose pegs, pull the peg partially out, and rub birthday candle wax on the peg to help it stick (some teachers recommend chalk to help pegs stick, but it's abrasive)."

rmcpb (Rob) · #9 16-02-2009, 03:59 PM

The rosin dust is the go BUT often on the cheaper instuments the angle of the hole does not match the angle of the peg. Some very fine sandpaper around the peg and gently twisted in the hole will ream the hole to the same angles. Then its time for the rosin dust.

Dog Star (Phil) · #10 16-02-2009, 04:09 PM

Eric, you're a gem!

Humour and useful information all in one.
Didn't even think of trying Google for this sort of information.
I guess it's because despite the fact that I try to be a modern electronic information type person, I'm still a bit wedded to the old "horse and buggy" type thinking where if you have a problem, you either look in the Yellow Pages or ask around amongst the people that you know (in this case, the IIS members)
Many thanks again; not just for the direct information that you thoughtfully provided, but also for the education about modes of thinking and problem solving.
Cheers mate.

Dog Star (Phil) · #11 16-02-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmcpb

The rosin dust is the go BUT often on the cheaper instuments the angle of the hole does not match the angle of the peg. Some very fine sandpaper around the peg and gently twisted in the hole will ream the hole to the same angles. Then its time for the rosin dust.

Thanks to you for the info too Rob.
Guess that's why the luthier wanted to re-machine the head.
I thought that was just a touch extreme as he hadn't even physically seen the fiddle in question.
I'll try all the tips given so far and with any luck, that'll solve my problems.
Just goes to reinforce my belief that the IIS members are a cluey bunch of people regardless of the subject under discussion.

Barrykgerdes · #12 17-02-2009, 08:33 AM

Cheap violins.
Get yourself a good one like a genuine strad.
Of course you will no longer be able to afford astronomy.

Baz

erick (Eric) · #13 17-02-2009, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Star

Didn't even think of trying Google for this sort of information.

I Google for anything. Just pick a random topic and Google it - you'll be amazed what hits you get and that at least one person in the world is interested and internet literate enough to have something up! Now, the quality of the information is, of course, another question indeed.

Examples - wanted to introduce my children to Abbott and Costello - so I just Googled "Who's on first". Was wondering about the Rollergame I used to watch on TV as a kid, so I Googled "roller game australia T-birds".

Dog Star (Phil) · #14 17-02-2009, 11:57 AM

Thanks for that Erick.
I'm a slow learner, but I am a learner.
Thanks to Google, I now know what a Floyd Rose locking trem is.
Maybe not such a joke if you'd seen/heard me play the opening riff to Smoke on the Water on a fiddle.
Scary stuff!

Robert9 (Robert) · #15 17-02-2009, 06:48 PM

Hi Phil,
I play clarinet in a community orchestra. I'll ask one of our violin players about your problem with slipping pegs. We have a rehearsal tonight, so I should be able to give you some sort of reply tomorrow.
Robert

Wavytone · #16 17-02-2009, 08:10 PM

As a one time (now ex) violin player, rub resin (rosin) or rosin powder on them. They will bind (stick) nicely.
Don't sand them that is to destroy what was perfectly good.

I still have mine. I can't bear to part with it.

Robert9 (Robert) · #17 18-02-2009, 10:17 AM

Hi Phil,

The general consensus from a number of string players was to use chalk. However, one person suggested that if the pegs are slipping there is a good chance that it is not fitting properly. You can check this by striping the peg in a few places with chalk, then inserting the peg in the hole and moving it slightly back and forth. Any high spots will show where the chalk has been wiped. If the peg is a good fit, the chalk will have been totally wiped.

If you find high spots, these can be removed by carefully wrapping a small piece of very fine sand-paper around the peg the gently rotating it in the hole, checking often with a chalk mark (as above) on the peg for snugness of fit. Don't sand more than necessary to remove the high spots. Also, be careful not to get the pegs mixed as each should be matched to their individual hole.

When the pegs fit snugly, you should have no further slipping problems. Just remember to push the peg firmly inwards as you are tuning. If you do still have problems, chalk could be used.

Hope all this helps.
Robert

Dog Star (Phil) · #18 19-02-2009, 07:40 AM

Many thanks also Wavytone and Robert.

Will spend a bit of time this weekend sorting this little problem. A bit busy in the meantime.
Thanks again to all for your replies, very much appreciated.

Jen · #19 19-02-2009, 09:19 PM

:vi olin:
Hey Phil i got these guys together just for you
use them wisely they on an hourly rate

Robert9 (Robert) · #20 20-02-2009, 01:37 PM

They're playing "Hearts and Flowers". Sob, sob....