Lost Newbie

Robert9 (Robert) · #1 13-12-2008, 10:41 AM

Hi all. I initially joined the group to find out about the Celestron 127 at DSE's, but also find a group of very interested/ing and friendly people. I've also now found quite a bit of info to the extent that I've become confused (not unusual for me). I've read that the celestron 127 is "not worth buying" to "its great". http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/..../shrugging.gif
I can't really see myself extending gratly into the world of astronomy, living as I do in suburban Melbourne, but I thought this would be a good scope for when I go off bush in the caravan where nights are dark and skies fabulously clear. Going to Harrietville in January. Tucked into a valley, no city lights, clear skies etc etc. SHould I get the 127 or would it be a waste? Please advise.

Robert http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/..../helpsign3.gif

gbeal · #2 13-12-2008, 11:01 AM

Robert.
depends, like anything in this game.
If you have had nothing prior to this, then it will satisfy your appetite, and probably make you want bigger/better.
Where a lot of folk go wrong is by suggesting that this style of scope is not worth buying, when they compare it to what they have. In my case, I likely started with something like this, and have progressed over the (45+) years.
Before you buy, can you get together with others in your area? This will allow you to see what others are using and try them. It may mean you sit tight and get something better. If I had to be honest I would have suggested buying from a more specialized astro outlet, not DSE.
Gary

Zuts · #3 13-12-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbeal

Robert.
depends, like anything in this game.
If you have had nothing prior to this, then it will satisfy your appetite, and probably make you want bigger/better.
Where a lot of folk go wrong is by suggesting that this style of scope is not worth buying, when they compare it to what they have. In my case, I likely started with something like this, and have progressed over the (45+) years.
Before you buy, can you get together with others in your area? This will allow you to see what others are using and try them. It may mean you sit tight and get something better. If I had to be honest I would have suggested buying from a more specialized astro outlet, not DSE.
Gary

Hi Robert,

I think Gary gave you three great bits of advice.

(1) Go and see what other people are using at a local astro society (if possible).
(2) Purchase from a dedicated Astro outlet.
(3) Buy the DS scope on price only, and it would need to be a damn good price.

Why

(1) You will get honest opinions from people at your local society and better still can look through other peoples scopes so you will be under no illusions about what you will be buying.
(2) I have been to a number of viewing nights and to date have never ever seen somebody turn up with a DS special. They may have them at home in the garage but they never use them once they get a better scope.

DS is not an astro outlet. The only reson they sell scopes is to make money and the scopes they stock to do this are slanted at one type of buyer, the impulse buyer. Therefore the scopes will be the lowest cost to produce (not necesarily lowest price) scopes available, with all the cutting of corners this implies.

So I think it cant possibly hurt to at least talk to the staff at a dedicated astro shop. I see you are in Melb, so why not visit Bintel.

(3) Even so the DS scopes are usually overpriced for what you get. However they will form an image of the moon, planets and so on so if you think this is as far as you will go and if the price is right then by all means get one. Remember the following though.

(i) It has a built in barlow.
(ii) This is because it has a spherical rather than parabolic mirror.

Why is the above important? It means you will never be able to upgrade focusers use the scope for decent photography and so on. Basically except for buying a few additional eyepeices its potential is as is out of the box and it cant be tweaked. Now given the price and your appetite for astronomy this may not be an issue.

Cheers
Paul

JethroB76 (Jeff) · #4 13-12-2008, 11:53 AM

The celestron powerseeker 127 at DSE is a very ordinary scope. It was recommended on a thread just the other day for a newbie even though it uses a spherical mirror and the much hated Jones-Bird system for doubling the focal length of an OTA by using a cheap barlow/corrector buit into the focuser.

Those that buy these types find collimation a real pain and even try modifying the scope with new OTAs etc, but in reality they are just cheap junk; and then theres the mount which will most likely disapoint.

The fact is you get what you pay for in this hobby. You really need to look to spend at least $350-400 to get a decent scope or maybe a little less secondhand. IMO ~$220 for the DSE scope is a waste when you could get a 6" Dob from Andrews or similar for about $350

Robert9 (Robert) · #5 13-12-2008, 12:03 PM

Thanks a million for your responses. I guess I'll up my budget a bit and look at a wider field. Certainly your advice has been what I wanted and is taken with many thanks. The 6"Dobs seems to be the way ahead. Wonder whether I can get something before I go away???

rmcpb (Rob) · #6 13-12-2008, 01:29 PM

Robert,

Have a good read of this thread. Lots of good ideas and options have been tossed around for a base level scope that may suit your initial needs.

I say initial because , if you have a great time with a small one initially it won't be long before you are saving for a larger one. Happens to us all

Cheers

gbeal · #7 13-12-2008, 03:20 PM

While I am only guessing, I would almost be certain that most astro outlets near you would have a 6" dob in stock, and at a cost you could afford.
It will be a far better idea, and will allow you to see a whole heap more.
Gary

Robert9 (Robert) · #8 13-12-2008, 04:23 PM

What additional sort of mount is required for the Dob? Lying on a dewy ground for half a night doen't seem like being too much fun.
I read through the other thread you recommended Rob and found it very interesting. I looked at the BinTel site but they don't show their 6" Dob although I was able to find it via a circular route. I Have the impression though that it is discontinued.
Andrews have a second hand Guan Sheng GS-500, complete with SV1 mount/tripod, bonus RA drive, etc. for $349. Who are Guan Sheng?

I'm still slightly bewildered by the poor reports on the Celestron. I thought they made good stuff!

A slightly different aspect. What are the care difficulties/requirements with a reflector type telescope compared to a refractor?

andrewk_82 (Andrew) · #9 13-12-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert9

What additional sort of mount is required for the Dob? Lying on a dewy ground for half a night doen't seem like being too much fun.
I read through the other thread you recommended Rob and found it very interesting. I looked at the BinTel site but they don't show their 6" Dob although I was able to find it via a circular route. I Have the impression though that it is discontinued.
Andrews have a second hand Guan Sheng GS-500, complete with SV1 mount/tripod, bonus RA drive, etc. for $349. Who are Guan Sheng?

I'm still slightly bewildered by the poor reports on the Celestron. I thought they made good stuff!

A slightly different aspect. What are the care difficulties/requirements with a reflector type telescope compared to a refractor?

Hi Robert,

The dob would not require any additional mount as dob is short for dobsonian and it is actually a name for the type of mount that the telescope is on. The telescope is the same as a newtonian mounted on an equatorial mount but it is on a dobsonian mount. The dobsonian mount is cheaper and easier to use. Here is a link to Andrews' communication which show both dobsonians and equatorial mounted scopes http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

Guen Sheug Optical scopes are quite good value for money, with quite good optics (you'll notice that nearly every second person on these forums has a Guen Sheng telescope). I think the deal you have been offered is quite good (you can see on the above link that the current model of that scope is selling for $499 without an RA drive).

Reflectors do need collimating which becomes quite easy with practice and the right tools. There are many threads and guides on this forum regarding collimation. You do get more bang for your buck though with a reflector.

I hope this helps

Cheers

Robert9 (Robert) · #10 13-12-2008, 05:17 PM

Thanks for that info Andrew. A follow-up visit to the Guan Sheng site let me see what the GS500 looked like.
The few pics. I've been able to see of Dobs scopes haven't been too clear on showing where the eye-piece fits. It seems it must be close to the aperture alongside the finder-scope. Thus, I guess, one only needs a comfortable stool.
I think the time has come to actually visit a shop, perhaps BinTel, and actually see some scopes in the flesh. The 6" BinTel Dobs might well be the go, if they still have/make them.

andrewk_82 (Andrew) · #11 13-12-2008, 05:32 PM

Hi Robert,
The focuser on the dobs is next to the finderscope.
Visiting Bintel sounds like a good idea as their scopes are also very good (in fact they are Guen Sheng telescopes, just re-badged with bintel labelling).
Good luck with your purchase

Robert9 (Robert) · #12 13-12-2008, 05:40 PM

Ah ha! OK on BinTel. I have the feeling that Saxon telescopes are the same as Orion who are.....
Yea verily I doth say. BinTel to see come Monday. :-)

bobson (Bob) · #13 13-12-2008, 11:42 PM

Hi Robert

MyAstroShop has SkyWatchers 6" Dobsonian for $369

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/produc...asp?id=MAS-063

But I would go with SkyWatchers 8" Dobsonian for $465
I had this one and can say its very good scope, I sold it for $300, still feel I should've kept it for kids and myself for my backyard. 12" Dob that I have now is better but much bigger to move around

cheers

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #14 14-12-2008, 12:36 AM

Dobs are great things!

Robert9 (Robert) · #15 14-12-2008, 05:09 PM

I'm certainly homing in on something. Thanks for the leads. Which is the better scope an 8"BinTel or 8" Skywatcher?
BinTel have an advantage in being located not far from me in Melbourne, but if a better scope comes from further afield (no pun intended) and the price is still reasonable, then .....
PS. Thanks for all your help. I realized later that I should really be in the Newbie section.

bobson (Bob) · #16 14-12-2008, 09:11 PM

Which one is better: Bintel or Skywatcher?

Well, for starters the price;

Bintel is selling for: $649.00
Skywatcher for: $465.00

Bintel comes with Crayford focuser featuring extra smooth 10:1 control
Skywatcher comes with normal focuser

Bintel comes with 8x50 90° Correct Image Finderscope
Skywatcher with 6x30 finderscope

Bintel comes with 26mm (2") Fully Multi Coated Eyepiece, 15mm and 9mm Fully Multi Coated Plossl Eyepieces, Moon filter

Skywather comes with only two plossl 10mm and 20mm

Bintel comes with cooling fan
Skaywatcher without cooling fan

Bintel is made in Taiwan GSO
Skywather is made in China

And so on, for the price difference of $184 dollars you will get some extra things if you go with Bintel.

Personally I think that Skywatcher has better mount and finish but does it have better mirror its hard to say. They are all mass produced.

You are in Melbourne so there is no postage and handling cost if you go with Bintel.

Anyway you go it will be OK, I am glad you are thinking to buy 8" instead of buying 6", you will see latter that it was right decision.

cheers

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #17 14-12-2008, 11:20 PM

I think it all comes down to preferance, and what you want to pay, I brought the 10" dob for $630. But have plans for it in the future to go up onto a eq6 or what ever it is when i get there thats capable of 20kgs+ and turn it into mainly a astrophotography setup.

My advice to you is think further than today, and try and see where you want to head towards, then buy accordingly. As the saying goes, Well placed dollars today turn into millions tomorrow.!

JethroB76 (Jeff) · #18 15-12-2008, 01:03 AM

Agree with Bobson also on the 8" over the 6" if your budget allows

York Optical, who have a Melbourne store, also carry an 8" Skywatcher @$449
http://www.yorkoptical.com.au/Produc...%2cProductName

It looks like the Skywatchers are still using rack and pinion focusers, though IIRC they are meant to be reasonable quality R&P's

Robert9 (Robert) · #19 15-12-2008, 08:50 PM

Thanks again for your comments. I had a look at Bintel scopes today and noted the difference in focussing control over Saxon which was also on offer. How much of a limitation is rack and pinion drive vs direct friction (Crayford)? Is the free-play significant? s there a difference between saxon and Skywatcher?
All up I'm leaning towards the Bintel, but the price is really beyond my budget. It started at about $250 (DSE), I doubled it to $500, now I'm looking at $650! Oh frustration!

monoxide · #20 15-12-2008, 09:30 PM

not sure how they compare now but i prefered the skywatcher dob base compared to the GSO base, the 'tension handle' works well and the laminate is a better quality which means its a bit smoother to use but the skywatcher R&P focuser is horrible and would make trying to collimate with any real precision a waste of effort in most cases.
you can fix the slop in the skywatcher focuser by tightening 2 allen screws but this makes it a bit stiffer to turn.

(im comparing my old 12" GSO with my older 6" skywatcher dob and i know that GSO has changed the design of their altitude bearings now)

both makes are very usable out of the box without any modifications.
i'd just go for the one thats offering the most extras..