Empty Space

[StardaddyEd (Ed)]

First of all I am from the USA. I was looking at a map (Goggle Earth) of Australia and noticed there is a HUGE amount of EMPTY space in the interior of the country. I was struck by the absolute lack of anything out there of human origin.

Is it really that big and really that empty. What a great place for astronomy?

Ed

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by StardaddyEd

First of all I am from the USA. I was looking at a map (Goggle Earth) of Australia and noticed there is a HUGE amount of EMPTY space in the interior of the country. I was struck by the absolute lack of anything out there of human origin.

Is it really that big and really that empty. What a great place for astronomy?

Ed

Hi Ed,

Yes, it is. The average population in those areas is below 0.1 persons per sq mile, and classed as uninhabited in the desert areas of the Red Centre.

I know a bloke who regularly participates in car rallies through the area, and he says that when you lay out at night, you feel you could reach up and touch the stars they are so spectacular.

Cheers

[Dog Star (Phil)]

G'day Ed.
I'm one of the 0.1 persons per sq. mile right in the very centre of the country, and I can assure you that contrary to what some might tell you, I am indeed of human origin
There are various centres of human population out here. Alice Springs, where I live, is a town with a population of roughly 28,000, but you have to go about 1,500 kms in any direction to find another place this big. All the other towns/communities are very small indeed and very widely scattered.
One of the many things I love about the Red Centre is the fact that it's possible to drive a mere 15-20 k's from the centre of town in order to feel that you're completely on your own.
I live about 15 k's from Alice and the view through my 12" dob is pretty spectacular, although there is a small light dome to the NE (Alice) and another to the SW (Pine Gap, the American "space base") but neither are much of a hinderance with regards to viewing.
When I first moved out here about 12 years ago and knew next to nothing about astronomy, I used to occasionaly wonder why there were nearly always 2 large clouds in the south. Laughed at myself when I found out that I was looking at the large and small Magellanic Clouds.
Naked eye observing is awesome! In Winter the Milky Way is scattered across the sky like fairy dust. The sight just takes your breath away and I feel very priveleged to live here!
The landscapes out here are also awesome. The red mountains and the deep blue skies provide a sharp contrast with each other and sunrises and sunsets are nearly always minor spectacles (quite often major)
I could rabbit on for hours about The Centre as I'm totally in love with it but why don't you save your money, pack your bags and come and have a look for yourself? I can promise that you won't be disappointed.
I can even show you some Southern astronomical delights through my scope.
C'mon, you know you want to. Just do it, do it, DO IT!
I'll even have an icey beer waiting on the table.
Cheers Mate!

[jungle11 (Greg)]

Hey there Ed, you're absolutely right. I live only about 400 km inland and even here is pretty remote. We are blessed not to have the light polution you are stuck with in America.
But then again, Australia hasnt been settled nearly as long - and large portions of it will proberly never be conducive to settlement. We'll proberly end up with mega-cities along the costlines like you fellas.

Here the centre of Australia is often referred to as The Great Bugger-All

Just remember 'bugger' has a different meaning here! So does thong...something we put on our feet not up our...

In fact that goes for both terms

[erick (Eric)]

Bet careful! If you get stuck out there with a broken-down vehicle and ill-prepared with water, food and shelter from the sun and heat, you will die! It's not all fun!

[Dog Star (Phil)]

Originally Posted by jungle11

Hey there Ed, you're absolutely right. I live only about 400 km inland and even here is pretty remote. We are blessed not to have the light polution you are stuck with in America.
But then again, Australia hasnt been settled nearly as long - and large portions of it will proberly never be conducive to settlement. We'll proberly end up with mega-cities along the costlines like you fellas.

Here the centre of Australia is often referred to as The Great Bugger-All

Just remember 'bugger' has a different meaning here! So does thong...something we put on our feet not up our...

In fact that goes for both terms

G'day Greg,
Don't know if you've ever been to Alice, but I've been to Roma. Used to go out there on shooting trips some 25 years ago.
I've been thinking about how your viewing would compare to mine and it might surprise you to know that yours is probably as good as mine, if not better.
As I mentioned in my post, I get a little light flare from Alice and Pine Gap. This is largely negligible due to the fact that both light sources are shielded by the Ilparpa Range in the SW (about 15 degrees from the horizon) and a bloody great chook shed in the NE (about 20 degrees)
Given that there are no mountain ranges around Roma and assuming that you're not viewing from the actual town area, your level of light pollution and unobstructed horizon views would probably tip the equation in your favor somewhat.
I know also that although Roma can be quite dry and dusty, I don't think that the amount of dust in the air would be anywhere near as bad as what it can be in Alice at times. Not only does that degrade the image somewhat, it also leaves a fine film of dust on the mirror. The dust isn't a year-round thing, but it occurs just enough to be a little problematic. Mind you, most nights are as still as, and the feeling that you could reach up and touch the stars, or "fall" heavenwards into them is a feeling that you could probably relate to.
Not sure how the rain/cloud factor differs between the two places, but I suspect that I just might have the edge slightly there.
I'm also blessed by the fact that all my viewing is done in my own yard, which is a BIG bonus. I could drive 5 minutes down the road to the local claypans, where the view is horizon to horizon, but in the 7 months that I've owned the scope I've never done it. I really don't think that the hassle of transporting the scope in the ute outweighs the convenience factor of observing from my yard. (Close to fridge, stereo, PC, coffee facilities, etc)
In conclusion though, if there is much difference quality-viewing wise between Alice and Roma, I think you'd need a razor to seperate them.
And let's face it mate, when you've got a 12"dob, the sky is your oyster anyway!
Cheers!

[GrahamL]

I'd of never considered dust out in central aus .. Is it a year round thing ?

[garyp]

Hey Dog star, after reading your first post I feel like packing my bags and having a look myself. I have always wanted to explore around the outback and plan to one day.

Your description of the area landscapes\nightsky etc.. has sold me. It sounds like you live in a fantastic place. In the centre of it all eh.

Are you in the tourist business? If not maybe you should be.

Cheers

Gary

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by Dog Star

And let's face it mate, when you've got a 12"dob, [erick EDIT - and dark skies!! ] the sky is your oyster anyway!

[Dog Star (Phil)]

G'day Nightstalker,
No, the dust isn't an all year occurrence, probably just a couple of weeks a year. Alice is a fairly windy place, due I think, to the Macdonnel Ranges (which are a series of parallel ranges) and the geothermal eddies generated by them. There's an awful lot of bare ground about, although it's not a desert in the same sense as the Gobi or Sahara. Technically it's an arid zone. Fortunately, the same winds that kick up the dust will more often than not blow it away. What can I say? It's a contrary sort of place!
G'day Garyp,
I've managed to persuade a few people to visit The Centre (locals call it Centralia) so I guess I'm a sort of unofficial tourism ambassador. It's a sort of public service that I provide for free. I ain't being paid for it, that's for sure. I've never been to Un Zud, but I'm guessing that the 2 places couldn't be more different. That's what struck me about the place; it's a total contrast to SE Queensland, where I grew up. Pack yer bags, my Anzac friend, the Land of the Long Red Sand beckons!
G'day Erick,
You must be due for a holiday soon? Why don't you pack up some of those lovely nokkies of yours and come for a visit? I've got a scope so you can leave your 12 incher at home.
(But maybe bring some of those flash ep's of yours?)
Cheers to all!

[astroron (Ron)]

G_Day Phill, you must be about due to visit your Brother again, in Sunny Queensland, all that dust must be getting in you eyes

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

That's a very interesting coincidence that you said that Ron, because I've been thinking frequently the last week or so that I need to get back up there and visit him again!

I haven't been anywhere near there for a few years, last trip was back way before I really got into this astronomy thing - and although I feel proud that I kind of induced Phil into buying that 12" dob (Same as mine, as you know - AND I bought him the 20x80 binos, also the same as mine) I often feel I want to head out there and share some of his Great Dark Sky.


..... think I feel a holiday coming on........

[Dog Star (Phil)]

G'day Ron,
Yeah, thinking I might be able to make the haul maybe in August/September, finances permitting. Just bought a small caravan before Christmas so as I can make the trip in style. Getting a bit old for camping on the ground in a swag these days Like to travel in the cooler months; it's kinder to the car, the dogs and ME. A trip to your place and a peek through your big truss would be on the cards too. Pity you couldn't haul that monster out here.
G'day Steve,
That's good to hear. Guess we'll talk more about this in the near future.
Cheers!

[jungle11 (Greg)]

Originally Posted by Dog Star

G'day Greg,
Don't know if you've ever been to Alice, but I've been to Roma. Used to go out there on shooting trips some 25 years ago.
I've been thinking about how your viewing would compare to mine and it might surprise you to know that yours is probably as good as mine, if not better.
As I mentioned in my post, I get a little light flare from Alice and Pine Gap. This is largely negligible due to the fact that both light sources are shielded by the Ilparpa Range in the SW (about 15 degrees from the horizon) and a bloody great chook shed in the NE (about 20 degrees)
Given that there are no mountain ranges around Roma and assuming that you're not viewing from the actual town area, your level of light pollution and unobstructed horizon views would probably tip the equation in your favor somewhat.
I know also that although Roma can be quite dry and dusty, I don't think that the amount of dust in the air would be anywhere near as bad as what it can be in Alice at times. Not only does that degrade the image somewhat, it also leaves a fine film of dust on the mirror. The dust isn't a year-round thing, but it occurs just enough to be a little problematic. Mind you, most nights are as still as, and the feeling that you could reach up and touch the stars, or "fall" heavenwards into them is a feeling that you could probably relate to.
Not sure how the rain/cloud factor differs between the two places, but I suspect that I just might have the edge slightly there.
I'm also blessed by the fact that all my viewing is done in my own yard, which is a BIG bonus. I could drive 5 minutes down the road to the local claypans, where the view is horizon to horizon, but in the 7 months that I've owned the scope I've never done it. I really don't think that the hassle of transporting the scope in the ute outweighs the convenience factor of observing from my yard. (Close to fridge, stereo, PC, coffee facilities, etc)
In conclusion though, if there is much difference quality-viewing wise between Alice and Roma, I think you'd need a razor to seperate them.
And let's face it mate, when you've got a 12"dob, the sky is your oyster anyway!
Cheers!

Hey Phil,
thought I'd explain where I live exactly. Roma is the nearest decent sized town - and it's about 65km west of my position (on this site it is only about 30km.((AdrianF's distance when i read his posts)) dont know why?) I live on a property and the nearest town of any description is Yuleba, which is home to less than 300 and has maybe a dozen street lights. Yuleba is about 5km away as the crow flies, plus it is bloked by a ridge between it and my family's property.
So the viewing is acceptable
+ half a million acres of State Forestry on the other side of our boundary fence - if I was keen i could set up scope in the middle of that (there's even a 'claypans' out there) but like you I haven't done it yet.
Dust isn't usually a problem here, I think you called that right
Clouds lately though - I've barely gotten the scope out in 3 weeks.
And yes - jokes aside - the viewing here is incredible. I've mentioned before that I like to just sit outside in a chair and get lost in it. After living in Brisbane where you were lucky to see a dozen stars with the unaided eye, I fully appreciate how fortunate you and I are!

cheers

[garyp]

Originally Posted by Dog Star

G'day Garyp,
I've managed to persuade a few people to visit The Centre (locals call it Centralia) so I guess I'm a sort of unofficial tourism ambassador. It's a sort of public service that I provide for free. I ain't being paid for it, that's for sure. I've never been to Un Zud, but I'm guessing that the 2 places couldn't be more different. That's what struck me about the place; it's a total contrast to SE Queensland, where I grew up. Pack yer bags, my Anzac friend, the Land of the Long Red Sand beckons!



Cheers to all!

Thanks Phil. I've been to the land of OZ before, but never far inland. I worked in rural WA for a while but was not very isolated. There was certainly some good dark skys there though.

The trouble with NZ is that it can live up to it's name very well in some parts. (The Land of The Long White Cloud.) Where I live we had a stage where for a few weeks it was cloudy most night. (Rather like living in Melbourne )

Cheers

Gary

[StardaddyEd (Ed)]

Thanks guys (or is it mates?)

What do you people do for a living? There is nothing out there! Astronomy is great but it won't pay the bills.

I have always wanted to go to Australia. I think most Americans are in love with Aussies. We really believe in the stereo type of super fun loving, very independent, tough people. And the accent on the fairer sex is killer.....and now there is great astronomy. It must be paradise!

Ed

[Dog Star (Phil)]

What do we do for a living?
Tourism, hospitality, farming, construction, road building and maintenance, social services and support, IT, retail, printing, mechanical, engineering, advertising, real estate, administration.
In short, we earn our money in much the same way that people in small to medium sized communities all over the world earn theirs.
Zoom your Google Earth down on Alice Springs to about 15-20 k's in height and you'll see that we're just another small town like any other. Just a little more isolated than most.
We're not all just sitting about the sand dunes swatting flies and drinking beer!
Um, okay. There is a BIT of that goes on, I guess.
If you don't mind a bit of heat, cold, dust, flies, snakes, (and spiders, scorpions, mozzies and more flies), isolation, alcoholism, drought, flood and a few more flies, then pack yer bags and come and have a look!
(Jeez, I think I may have just lost my Honorary Tourism Ambassador title.)
We'll find you a job alright Ed. Don't you worry about that!

[StardaddyEd (Ed)]

Phil

Thanks for the info. One thing I love about astronomy is the universal appeal (pun intended!). Don't feel like I am picking on Aussies I ask the same of folks in the country here in the US. I have even lived in remotish areas myself but I came in to do a certain job. I have no idea how people that were born there managed to grow up and stay there.

BTW what the heck is a moozie? I assume it is some poisonous animal that has a really nasty disposition and like to sneak into your house at night and hide in your shoes. I saw a show on some spider in AUS that has a habit of doing that and then biting people. It can actually kill you. Ever since I saw that I am freaked out by putting my boots that I keep in the garage.

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

" Mozzie " Ed is short for mosquito - the rest of your description is about right, they feel like they're poisonous killers allright when they bite your bare arms, legs, neck, face, etc!


One observing night recently I had some of those blood suckers bite me not only through the 2 Tshirts I was wearing, but also through the mesh material back of the chair I was sitting in at the time, and that is NOT an exaggeration I promise!

[Dog Star (Phil)]

Originally Posted by StardaddyEd

Phil

Thanks for the info. One thing I love about astronomy is the universal appeal (pun intended!). Don't feel like I am picking on Aussies I ask the same of folks in the country here in the US. I have even lived in remotish areas myself but I came in to do a certain job. I have no idea how people that were born there managed to grow up and stay there.

BTW what the heck is a moozie? I assume it is some poisonous animal that has a really nasty disposition and like to sneak into your house at night and hide in your shoes. I saw a show on some spider in AUS that has a habit of doing that and then biting people. It can actually kill you. Ever since I saw that I am freaked out by putting my boots that I keep in the garage.

G'day Ed,
Most Aussies, particularly those living in rural areas, very quickly get in the habit of giving their boots a good bash together and shake before they put them on.
To date, I've never found any nasty surprises in them, but the day I forget that morning ritual...