Giant 45deg 25 x 100 Binos

PCH (Paul) · #1 05-08-2008, 10:03 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm after a pair of these binos. Does anyone have any thoughts on which might be the better quality out of....

The Andrews pair...

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-11.htm

Or the Oberwerk pair ....

http://www.opticsplanet.net/oberwerk...inoculars.html

They're both around the same cost (ish..) and both would appear to have similar specs. I guess I'm asking if anyone can say for sure that one has superior optics perhaps, or maybe one pair has a feature not obvious from the ad' that a forum member might know about.

Any advise appreciated. Thanks in advance

Cheers,

Ian Robinson · #2 05-08-2008, 10:15 PM

The Oberwerks 100BT45s would be my choice, designed for astronony and presumeably will give good star focus.

Not so sure about the other one.

Kal (Andrew) · #3 06-08-2008, 09:09 AM

They are both derived from the same chinese manufacturer that used to make military binoculars, but has adapted to the opening astronomy market. Andrews would import from the same source as Oberwerker, although Oberwerker would probably do more of a presale inspection before shipping.

koputai (Jason) · #4 06-08-2008, 12:11 PM

As said, they're the same bino's.

Andrews $1799 complete

Bintel $2500 complete (only had one pair and price was approx)

A guy called Kendall (from Sydney) gets on here occasionally and asks $1700 without eyepieces. He also puts them on Ebay.

I saw them on Monday at the Sydney Boat Show on the Extravision stand. They were labelled as 'Show Special $3000, normally $4950'. Thieves.

Cheers,
Jason.

AstralTraveller (David) · #5 06-08-2008, 02:10 PM

They are the same binos but there are a couple of other things to check out: tripod, mount, road case.

I didn't realise that Kendall doesn't supply eyepieces.

PCH (Paul) · #6 06-08-2008, 02:37 PM

Mmmmm - thanks guys. An interesting asortment of answers. Much appreciated once again.

Cheers

Dennis · #7 06-08-2008, 03:43 PM

Hi Paul

Have a look on Cloudy Nights (CN) and look Reviews, Binoculars 100mm and over. There are a couple of reviews on Oberwerk models.

From one of these reviews:

“Summary
The Oberwerk 45° BT 100s are optically and mechanically excellent. The fork mount is superb. This unit is as great to look at, and look through as it is comfortable to use. The binocular/mount combination is heavy (36 lbs.) and demands heavy duty support. I would recommend nothing less than the Bogen/Manfrotto 3258 heavy duty tripod with a rated capacity of 44 lbs. This tripod has a geared center column that is beefy enough to support the binocular/fork mount. The combination of the 45° viewing angle, fork mount, geared center column and individually selectable eyepieces together with the 45° BT 100 optical and mechanical excellence interact to produce an unsurpassed binocular viewing experience.”

Cheers

Dennis

PCH (Paul) · #8 06-08-2008, 09:26 PM

Thanks Dennis, that is a very complete amd interesting review.

Others have said the Andrews and Oberwerk pairs are the same item - what are your thoughts on this ?

Many thanks

Dennis · #9 06-08-2008, 09:35 PM

Sorry Paul – I don’t know anything about these binos, or whether the Andrews model and the Oberwerk model are the same or if they come from the same factory.

However, in these days of out sourcing, it seems that several “manufacturers” may obtain their “product” from a single (3rd party) factory and simply have their badge or logo stamped on the item before packaging and shipping to them.

This may not necessarily mean that the materials, processes, testing and QA are the same for all units, as one “manufacturer” may stipulate better materials, more stringent testing, tighter specs and better QC/QA which in theory, should result in a superior (usually more expensive) product.

Cheers

Dennis

PCH (Paul) · #10 06-08-2008, 09:56 PM

Thanks Dennis.

I understand where you're coming from there. It certainly makes it hard to know what constitutes a good deal

I'm trying to find an option that avoids getting them from the US, as I'd probably be liable for the endless taxes, charges and duties that (I believe) apply for imports over about a grand.

I'll keep at it

Cheers,

koputai (Jason) · #11 07-08-2008, 09:32 AM

They are all the same. Read the terms and conditions on the true manufacturers website. You'll see that they will put whatever badge you like on them. Oberwerk are just another retailer, making their cut on a cheap Chinese product just like our retailers here do.
Even if Oberwerk stipulated more stringent testing, the Chinese would either just tell them they're doing it, or if they do, would apply that testing to all. It's a production line.

http://www.binocularschina.com/binoc...ocuser_45.html

Cheers,
Jason.

PCH (Paul) · #12 07-08-2008, 10:28 AM

Hi Jason,

yes, I had seen that site and realised that was probably where they all came from. I wasn't sure about whether different retailers like Oberwerk could stipulate different testing, but as you say it's a production line so it would probably be cheaper and easier just to do the same to them all. Thanks for clarifying Jason

Dennis · #13 07-08-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koputai

They are all the same. Read the terms and conditions on the true manufacturers website. You'll see that they will put whatever badge you like on them. Oberwerk are just another retailer, making their cut on a cheap Chinese product just like our retailers here do.
Even if Oberwerk stipulated more stringent testing, the Chinese would either just tell them they're doing it, or if they do, would apply that testing to all. It's a production line.

http://www.binocularschina.com/binoc...ocuser_45.html

Cheers,
Jason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCH

Hi Jason,

yes, I had seen that site and realised that was probably where they all came from. I wasn't sure about whether different retailers like Oberwerk could stipulate different testing, but as you say it's a production line so it would probably be cheaper and easier just to do the same to them all. Thanks for clarifying Jason

Hmm, looking at the Oberwerk website:

"In July of 2007, Oberwerk Corporation formed a joint venture with Yunnan Optoelectronics Co. Ltd., in Kunming, China. The new company is called YunAo Optics Co. Ltd. While the literal translation of YunAo in Chinese is "Cloud of Mystery", the name is actually just a blend of Yunnan Optics and Oberwerk (Oberwerk is pronounced "Ao Bei Wei" in Chinese). YunAo Optics employs approximately 100 engineers, assembly workers, and managers, and manufactures Oberwerk's six flagship products- the BT-80-45, 25/40x100A, 25/40x100M, BT-100, BT-100-45, and BT-120-45".

And..

"Product quality assurance is performed at our facility in the Russ Research Center, where each and every binocular is thoroughly tested and fine-tuned".

Given modern manufacturing techniques, small batch production runs and flexible production lines, there may well be a difference? Of course, this could just be marketing hype?

Cheers

Dennis

koputai (Jason) · #14 07-08-2008, 11:05 AM

Hmm, interesting Dennis. I suppose it's possible that the Oberwerk ones have more coated optics than the others off the production line, for additional cost of course.

Another point of interest in that was:
"BT-100-45, and BT-120-45"

I can't find any other reference to the 120mm bino's. Maybe they're a future product.

Cheers,
Jason.

Dennis · #15 07-08-2008, 11:36 AM

Those 100+ Oberwerk people in China must “add value” to those units designed/produced for Oberwerk in the joint venture. Tied in with the final QA in the US to verify compliance with requirements, I would expect the Oberwerk units to be more consistent performers.

If I were going to spend $2000 on these bino’s, for an extra $200-300 I’d probably go Oberwerk as it would appear from their website, that their rebadged units should be not only superior, but also have less “quality variation” between units?

That is not to say the “standard” units are poor, but one would at least expect more batch to batch variation? I guess that it just depends on what risk you are prepared to live with?

Cheers

Dennis

nightsky · #16 07-08-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PCH

Thanks Dennis.

I understand where you're coming from there. It certainly makes it hard to know what constitutes a good deal

I'm trying to find an option that avoids getting them from the US, as I'd probably be liable for the endless taxes, charges and duties that (I believe) apply for imports over about a grand.

I'll keep at it

Cheers,

G'Day,
I would be more inclined to buy them from a OZ shop,as your looking at about $570 for shipping and maybe GST or some other tax on top of that.
Cheers
Arthur

PCH (Paul) · #17 07-08-2008, 07:09 PM

Thanks Guys for all your input here. I would have liked to have gone for the OB binos, but I've just confirmed with Customs & Excise the lay of the land regarding taxes etc.

It seems, as has been mentioned before, that items over a grand are subject to import duty (although that's zero in the case of binos - that's good

), then gst at 10% on the total cost of the goods plus freight, then an unspecified cost for customs to raise all the paperwork to charge me these fees.

Oh well, it was a nice idea

Cheers,

mercedes_sl1970 · #18 07-08-2008, 08:02 PM

Paul

I have a set of these which I bought from Andrews over 12 months ago and looked into this very issue. The Oberwerk specs at the time matched the Andrews specs exactly which matched the manufacturers specs... I would imagine that the situation is still the same.

Also, I'm a a bit of a wimp in spending large sums of money overseas so the warranty factor was also an issue for me - not that I've had any problems. Indeed, the binos are simply terriffic. I just had a quick look at the moon at 120x before the clouds came over and the binos were very impressive. However, low power views are where they really shine. One day I'll get some decent eyepieces...

I would also reiterate the suggestion above about checking prices to ensure they include the tripod and mount. At the time I was looking these were not being included overseas at some retailers. The Andrews price was literally the best - and still is, I think.

Good luck with your hunting.

Andrew

PCH (Paul) · #19 07-08-2008, 08:21 PM

Hi Andrew,

thanks for that info. Sounds like it might be the way to go. The sending money overseas bit doesn't really phase me, but the additional cost in freight and taxes etc miffs me quite a lot. I'll probably give Andrews a call in the next day or two and get them ordered.

Thanks again for the help Andrew.

Cheers,

Chippy (Nick) · #20 07-08-2008, 11:08 PM

I can confirm that the coatings CAN be different. I can't speak for these exact 2 models you are comparing, but I CAN confirm that some of models that AOE sell, do have superior coatings than the ones Andrews sell. They are clearly the same binos, and must come from the same factory - but with different coatings. I know this because I bought the identical looking pair of 15x70 binos from them. The AOE coatings were superior - different colour. So the Oberwerks or Bintels may in fact have different coatings to Andrews. The Andrews binos would still be good if not exactly the same though.