First Scope

Iddon · #1 12-05-2005, 09:09 PM

Have read the previous posts - great advice there especially the one leading to the 8" Dobs - thanks.

Have set myself about a $1000 budget. Initial plan is to limit myself and use this first scope for at least a year before buying something more serious once I know the ropes (and once I know that I will stick with the program!)

So this is a learning scope, and I would like to learn the full range of finding and tracking techniques and methods. This being the case, my initial inclination is for a reasonable Newtonian on a suitable EQ mount - however I would be happy to hear from the community if you think that the full range of skills and techniques can be learnt on a Dobs.

My initial and rather uneducated (naive) intent is to use Star Atlas Pro to assist learning the sky, and to take initial lessons from there out onto the scope. Is this a good technique? And is doing this more effective with a Dobs or a Newt-EQ ??

I do like the idea of measuring angles and using 'navigation' techniques to find my way around the sky, rather than only doing 'hopping', however, as I said, this my be a naive view as I am yet to practice any of this.

I can live with an inferior view during this learning phase, knowing that if hooked, in a year or so will move up to something more sophistocated.

So my initial pluck is between the following:
Celestron Starhopper 8" for about $800
Celestron C6N on CG4 EQ - about $770 (150x750mm)
Guan Sheng GS-660 200mm x 800mm $1000
SkyWatcher 200X1000PEQ5 $999.00 (have read a poor review..)
OP500 Optex 150x750 $995

I have heard the GS-660 has decent optics.....
So, does my plan above warrant one of the Newtonian EQ scopes, or is the Dobs still the way to go ?

slice of heaven · #2 12-05-2005, 09:47 PM

Hi Iddon
The 8" dob would be a great place to start. Someone else will give you a rundown on the eq mounted scopes. Add digital setting circles if you need and you can easily hunt down whatever the scope is capable of seeing. The gs 8" scopes are priced under $500 so it's within your budget with funds left for other accessories. An 8" will give you great views of a multitude of objects.

Slice

iceman (Mike) · #3 13-05-2005, 09:21 AM

Hi Grant.

It looks like you've done your research, which is great to see.

Do you plan to use the scope for purely visual or imaging as well?
How portable does it need to be?
Do you have a backyard where you can set it up and leave it?
Do you have to transport it in and out of the house each time you want to use it?
Do you need to transport it via your car to a dark site?

Answers to some of those questions might help you decide if you want a dob mount or an EQ mount. The dobs are much easier to transport and quicker to setup, but if you get a driven EQ mount then it's better for imaging or even visual use as the object stays in the eyepiece view.

There's tradeoff's whichever you choose.

Since it's going to be your starting scope for about a year, I'd lean towards recommending a dob, because it's cheaper ($399 for the 8") and will leave you room for the accessories, which you'll be able to take with you when you move to the new scope in a years time. Including eyepieces, barlows, filters, red light, collimation tools (assuming you get a reflector next time as well), etc.

The Guan Sheng scopes are the pick of the bunch, whether you go for dob or EQ. They're cheaper than any other brand, but the optical quality is just as good, since they're made in the same factory anyway. The Celestron and SkyWatcher, as well as Southern Cross and most other brands you can buy in Australia, are all made by GS in Taiwan and re-badged depending on where you buy it.

There's a bunch of mods you can do to the 8" newts, especially if you choose the dob.

Regarding hopping/navigation, it's really going to be personal preference. I suppose the dob is more suitable to find things by starhopping but I'm sure you can do it the other way if you're so inclined.. once you get used to the backwards inverted view. You can use manual or digital setting circles to help you find what you want, in addition to star charts or planetarium software.

Anyway I hope i've given you some food for thought.

Ask any questions you like and I hope you come back often!

btw how did you hear about us?

mch62 (Mark) · #4 13-05-2005, 09:51 AM

Go with the Guan Sheng 8"Optics but put them on at least an EQ5 .
The GS optics appear to be better than the Sky Watchers at least in the larger aperatures.
The EQ5 will allow for adding Go-To kits later on if and when you feel up to it.
There are lots of add on kits for the Eq5 as it being so popular.
If you get the 8"as dob it can be mounted on an EQ5 with the appropriate mounting brackets.
So you may just want to start with the dob and work your way up from there.

Mark

Starkler (Geoff) · #5 13-05-2005, 10:58 AM

Small correction to what Mike said. There are two main manufacturers of lower price scopes. Guan Sheng and Synta.

Synta are badged here as Saxon or Skywatcher, whereas Guan Sheng usually carries a "house name" or self named.

Iddon · #6 13-05-2005, 05:33 PM

outstanding advice guys

Keep it rolling.
Levitating toward a GS 8" Newtonian on an EQ5 then

Starkler (Geoff) · #7 13-05-2005, 06:58 PM

If i was putting a newt on an eq mount with imaging a consideration, I would possibly consider the GS 8 inch f4 OTA.
Being shorter it would give a wider field and be more forgiving in loading of the mount, but being f4, coma could be an issue for visual. Everything is a trade off.

Review here
http://www.excelsis.com/1.0/entry.ph...12&entryid=537

iceman (Mike) · #8 13-05-2005, 07:58 PM

f4 would be a lot more taxing on your eyepieces, and you'll need to invest in some premium eyepieces, or accept that the outer 1/3rd of your view will show seagulls eating chips.

Are you looking to do any imaging?

Also does the EQ5 have RA+DEC tracking motors? It might be worth getting the HEQ5 which can be upgraded with the SkyScan GOTO capability. It's also a more solid (heavier) mount which will be better for imaging too, should you go down that path.

I'm sure Mark Hodson will correct me on anything I said wrong

seeker372011 (Narayan) · #9 13-05-2005, 09:29 PM

first scope? unless you are an imager get the Dob!

There is software that will give you alt az co-ordinates for objects if that is your preferred tracking mode-as opposed to star hopping

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #10 13-05-2005, 09:47 PM

Grant,

My first scope (home made 4.25" reflector) was on an EQ mount.

20 years later I now own a 12" reflector on a Dob mount.

I actually enjoy the star-hopping by Dob more than the EQ.
It just seems easier. As much as I would now love to have a GoTo scope (the truth comes out), the excitement of finding objects in the sky without any computerised equipment is a thrill in itself. Seeing the object is only half the fun, finding it is the other.

But dobbing is not for everyone!

Are you near any observatories or Astro societies to try the different types of mounts?

mch62 (Mark) · #11 14-05-2005, 06:35 AM

Not sure what focal lengths the 200mm GS come in but Sky Watcher use to as a standard package fit the 250mm f5 on an EQ5 .
Now I would say that is a visual set up and quite taxing on the mount as they now use an EQ6 and HEQ5 but would have to think an 200mm f5 would be with in the mounts capabilities for imaging especialy if a little work is done on the mount and a good Go To kit fitted.
Do a search on the web with load limits for imaging and see what pops up alos on upgrading the mount .
There a lots that have done this.
Any one comment on this as far as the pay load of an EQ5.

If you budget could stand it an HEQ5 is an option.
This mount is more like a light weight version of an EQ6 rather than a beefier EQ5 and would allow for lots of extras on the scope as well as.
So get your 8"dob and play with that for a while and see if before forking out for a mount this scope is going to get and keep you excited about astronomy.
In the mean time save up for the biggest mount you budget will allow.

mch62 (Mark) · #12 14-05-2005, 06:45 AM

Another mount to consider and save for and has been getting good wraps is the Celestron CG-5 mount.

Celestron fit a 10"f4.7 and 8"f5 to this mount.
It is vertually a glorified EQ5 mount with all the bells and whistles allready fitted as in Go-To.
It has large 2"legs to boot.
Also appears to be a better mount load wise than the Meade Lx series mounts.
US price $700
Australian price any one guess???

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?...-278-2060&tb=1

dhumpie · #13 16-05-2005, 02:43 PM

I agree with Mark. Go with the dob. More stable, better views due to the smaller central obstruction and longer focal length (meaning you won't need to superb Nagler's and Pentax's) and if you are not familliar with the sky easier to navigate as it is just left to right and up and down....

Darren

Iddon · #14 16-05-2005, 09:35 PM

hmm

GS 8" f/6 on a HEQ5.
A balanced approach ?
More $$ than I was initially considering......

gaa_ian (Ian) · #15 16-05-2005, 11:30 PM

Hi Grant & Welcome
If you have $1000 to spend and the easy portability is not an Issue.
I would go with the 12" GS dob

Appature rules if you want to SEE STUFF !
If you want imaging, different story again.
For me the thrill is in seeing the faint fuzzies described in the Mag's and being able to make out the detail.
I use EQ, Go-To & Alt Az Dob.
The dob is still my favourite

(I just want a bigger one

)

Iddon · #16 18-05-2005, 05:31 PM

bigger dobs ?

james · #17 18-05-2005, 11:02 PM

hey

i just bought the 10" dob from andrews and im loving it so much, i seen jupiter tonight for the 1st time ever yay
i got the 10" dob for 599$ brand new =)

Ratman · #18 18-07-2005, 06:53 PM

Calling Professionals! How would you guys (and dolls) rate the Meade EXT-70 as a first scope? Comes with "auto star" finder thingyee. Uses would be purely visual at this stage, (later on I might try some photography).

Cheeers rats

acropolite (Phil) · #19 18-07-2005, 07:02 PM

Ratman; as an owner of a meade LX90 I would advise you to forgo the gadgetry if budget's a problem and go for a dob. There's no substitute for aperture so if the money's limited then go for aperture first and gadgetry last.

dhumpie · #20 19-07-2005, 05:26 PM

If it is purely for visual I say go the biggest you can for your budget. A short tube 70mm scope does not strike me as a first scope, a second grab and go maybe but not a first scope IMHO. It has neither the long focal length to resolve planetary details well nor the light gathering power for DSO's. I say got the way of the dob...

Darren