Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > Astronomy and Amateur Science
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 03-09-2023, 08:08 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,998
8.7-million-year-old fossil ape from Türkiye poses questions on human origins

24 August 2023

A new fossil ape from an 8.7-million-year-old site in Türkiye is challenging
long-accepted ideas of human origins and adding weight to the theory that
the ancestors of African apes and humans evolved in Europe before migrating
to Africa between nine and seven million years ago.

Story here :-
https://www.utoronto.ca/news/ancient...esearchers-say

Link to paper in Nature Communications Biology :-
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-023-05210-5
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-09-2023, 08:22 AM
Steffen's Avatar
Steffen
Ebotec Alpeht Sicamb

Steffen is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toongabbie, NSW
Posts: 1,974
I have no doubt that our evolutionary ancestors migrated, diverged and merged again several times, but what does this find have to do with Europe? The fossil site is clearly in Asia.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-09-2023, 09:36 AM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffen View Post
I have no doubt that our evolutionary ancestors migrated, diverged and merged again several times, but what does this find have to do with Europe? The fossil site is clearly in Asia.
Anatolia was connected to the European mainland until c. 5600 BCE,
when the melting ice sheets caused the sea level in the Mediterranean to rise
around 120 m, triggering the formation of the Turkish Straits.
As a result, two former lakes (the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea)
were connected to the Mediterranean Sea, which then separated Anatolia
from Europe.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-09-2023, 11:13 AM
Steffen's Avatar
Steffen
Ebotec Alpeht Sicamb

Steffen is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toongabbie, NSW
Posts: 1,974
Yes, and Europe and Asia have long been (and still are) connected along most of their border.

Besides, humanoid fossils around the Black Sea from the late miocene are nothing new. There have been several already, including Ankarapithecus, Graecopithecus and Ouranopithecus macedoniensis. The late miocene (from which this recent find is) was a long time ago, there is very long way from there to the first homo species. Not to mention many depopulations and migrations due to geological and climate events, incl. glaciations, periodic drying and flooding of the Mediterranean, climatic changes in Africa, etc.

Scientific papers tend to speak of Eurasian apes. Headlining “ancestors of African apes and humans evolved in Europe” and implying that the “out of Africa” hypotheses was wrong all along, has a politicising, even jingoistic slant that shouldn’t go unchallenged.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-09-2023, 03:19 PM
gary
Registered User

gary is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mt. Kuring-Gai
Posts: 5,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steffen View Post
Besides, humanoid fossils around the Black Sea from the late miocene are nothing new. There have been several already, including Ankarapithecus, Graecopithecus and Ouranopithecus macedoniensis.
Hi Steffen,

The paper in Nature discusses these considerably and as it says,
"Hominines were more diverse in the late Miocene of the eastern Mediterranean than previously understood"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayla Sevim-Erol
Eastern Mediterranean hominines may represent a terminal radiation arising from one or more older hominines in Europe, analogous to the radiation of Paranthropus presumably from an Australopithecus-like ancestor. Alternatively, given that European hominines most closely resemble gorillas, it is possible that this represents a radiation of early members of the gorilla clade, mirroring the middle and late Miocene radiation of pongines in Asia. It is also possible that European hominines represent terminal lineages of successive dispersals of hominines from Africa, though there is no evidence of multiple lineages of hominines between 13 and 10 Ma in Africa, and this hypothesis is not supported by the results of the phylogenetic analysis presented here. Finally, some researchers have focused attention on differences among eastern Mediterranean apes, suggesting that multiple lineages are present, including the earliest known hominin
On the contrary, I don't read anything in this paper that is jingoistic at all.
It's all part of the bigger puzzle. I've journeyed along the shores of Lake
Turkana in northern Kenya, close to the borders of Ethiopia and South
Sudan, where some of the oldest finds of genus Homo have
been made. Today, that part of the Rift Valley is sparsely populated and
predominantly desert. I have happened across the occasional lone hunter,
in the desert, totally naked, clutching nothing but a spear looking for prey.
Though remarkably people somehow survive there today, it is so
inhospitable that it was likely to be a very different landscape 2 million
years ago. But no doubt still really tough and an evolutionary driving
force contributor.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-10-2023, 04:13 PM
Joe Brimacombe (Joseph)
Registered User

Joe Brimacombe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cairns
Posts: 7
Fascinating

Thanks for posting. How interesting.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 03:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement