Consumer law

[Peter Ward]

This one is for for any legal-eagles out there.

You order and item and are given an invoice with a final price and deposit amount.
You pay the deposit
You wait
You wait some more.
Item arrives.
Vendor wants to increase the price but there were no provisions or mention for this on the invoice. (e.g. exchange rate variation)

Can you insist on supply at the invoiced price?
Can the vendor cancel the sale if you don't want to pay more than the invoice?
Can you insist on a deposit refund plus interest?

Australian consumer law I find a little vague on the above, but maybe I'm
being obtuse....hence a learned opinion is most welcome.

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Yes,
Not after they have supplied the goods,
Who cares if you have what you want in your hands.

The answers may vary should you ever want to deal with that supplier again and are willing to cut them some slack - supply chain issues have caused many otherwise excellent companies to go bankrupt in the COVID/Ukraine conflict era. Don't rely on a warranty or any form of customer service from them in the future!

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Consumer item or commercial?

There should be a terms of service notification agreement somewhere…that might dictate the chain of ownership. Not sure my answer is helpful

[xelasnave]

The terms of a contract are usually found in the agreement between the parties however other terms maybe included due to what is set out in a statute that has effect in that particular case and other terms may be included by virtue of common practice and even that summation is probably too limited to be of specific help and we should remember that each situation is different and the reason we have law courts is to offer a specific decision on a specific case.

A simple approach would be to challenge a vendor who changes the price and ask why they are changing your contract with them and at that point consider their explanation which will probably be the magic words "company policy" and still will not hint at what law they rely upon...although it may.

Folk think the Law offers you a stick to beat your opponent but this is seldom the case. The only way to view any contract is it is merely evidence of a transaction you have with someone you have no intention of needing enforcement.. in other words don't deal with anyone that you feel you will need to go to court to see the deal go thru.

The first thing to do is to reduce the issue to some sort of specifics...like which company pulled such a thing ? And most importantly what was their reason and what was the justification they offered...And most of all was the event a one off or does it happen all the time.

Many things happen in this world that are due to one employee making a mistake..that needs to be rules out.

The specifics are what need to be looked at.

Alex

[dikman (Richard)]

It sounds like you have the item? If so why would the vendor try and increase the price after you have it? I wouldn't think they would have any grounds to do so.

[xelasnave]

I don't like to jump to conclusions but I suspect an employee has missed a certain charge and later tried to fix his oversite.
Alex

[Peter Ward]

Some interesting responses here.

It's a consumer item. I paid a substantial deposit.

Item still to be supplied. My take is the vendor can refuse to sell it for the original invoiced price but will have to refund the deposit if I don't want to pay more than the original price.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Some interesting responses here.

It's a consumer item. I paid a substantial deposit.

Item still to be supplied. My take is the vendor can refuse to sell it for the original invoiced price but will have to refund the deposit if I don't want to pay more than the original price.

Sounds like the contract was made when the deposit was paid and therefore they, as are you, " bound" by that contract. It would seem their behaviour may entitle you to sue for breach of contract....however that opens a can of worms and they I expect know it..

You could take delivery pay they price demanded and then demand damages...they won't pay it I expect...but you could open back and forth correspondence which you could take some contentment that they are paying someone to manage the issue.

A friend of mine gave me what I rate as good advice " be able to spot a loss and move quickly past it before it wastes more time and energy"...

It is easy to be right but not always win the game...

Alex.

[TrevorW]

Look to offer and acceptance is a binding contract he cannot change the price post eventu

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Look to offer and acceptance is a binding contract he cannot change the price post eventu

That is correct Trevor and with "consideration" passing there is your contract....

Alex

[Astrofire (Dale)]

Apologies if this has already been discussed. I haven't read the other comments. These are my rushed thoughts. But did a LOT of law in my business degree. If you want to pursue this, I'd suggest getting formal legal advice or better still just go to consumer affairs.

Under contract law there is the concept of "offer" and "acceptance". The seller offers you the price and you accept/reject. There must be adequate communication - the contractual instrument is the original Invoice, and this is the form of communication (offer) and you agree to pay the agreed amount (acceptance).

If you don't agree to the new price, then there is no contract and you're not bound to pay the additional amount. Your only bound to pay the originally AGREED amount. I wouldn't pay the additional amount as this then establishes a new contract (because you're agreeing to pay more). I'd just pay the agreed amount.

Bottom line is they can't legally do this. If you were given a quote and they had some text saying that the amount could vary then that's a different story. In that case they would get back to you first and say - it's gone up by $X amount do you still want it. The quote wouldn't be a formal agreement. Just you directing them to firm up the price. You would only be agreeing for them to formulate a final figure (the Invoice) at which time you could agree/disagree.

In a service business some people will charge a fee to progress a Quote to an Invoice because it takes a bit of effort to firm it up. In the case of a product this needs to be managed via adjustment terms on a quote or the Invoice itself.

Ultimately you are the one that should be having the final say on what will be invoiced and not just lumped with a price increase without your consent (agreement).

Hope it goes ok for you.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Peter, your original post included a reference to exchange rates which led me to wonder whether your purchase was offshore. If it was, there are several issues including where the contract was made and further to that, which jurisdiction’s laws apply. It can get messy.

Either way, you have to ask yourself whether a legal stoush is worth the risk of loss. Because litigation is a risky business, you have to ask what might this cost if I lose the argument. The Risk/Reward equation is never easy.

[Peter Ward]

Thanks one and all for you input.

It is an Australian based vendor, the invoice clearly stated the price and deposit required (which was paid) for the order to proceed. There were no other conditions on the invoice.

I'm not a total novice here.

I have run my own business for nearly four decades, and after having my fingers burnt when the $AUD went to $USD0.49 took the view I had to cop the loss.

I was naive not to have put an exchange rate caveat in the landed price.

The "offer and acceptance" bit I figured had to be honored. This is too small a community to muck people around and expect them to pay for your
mistakes.

The current deal however is not done yet.

I hope it will end well.

[xelasnave]

Dale...The term " they can't legally do this" is meaningless...this is a civil law matter where there is no one enforcing the law ( other than various opportunities under consumer protection laws) if you want to claim any damages it is done via a law suit in the appropriate jurisdiction (and good luck working out where that will be) you do not say go to the police which deal with criminal law...in practice the "costs" of a legal action are extremely prohibitive and don't fall for the notion that with victory you will be awarded costs..well you can get an order for costs but they are what the court allows not what your solicitor will charge which will be much higher.

I speak from experience and the way it goes is a solicitor will have a pretty good idea of the law sufficient to recommend which barrister (specialist) you brief to actually run the case...to say nothing is cut and dried is a huge understatement.

They unfortunately have Peter by the S and Cs..he has to roll over accept their thuggery or miss out on what he wants...seeking a judgement in court will cost him many fold the additional charges even if he wins and that is by no means certain..is it fair ..no...but there is no rule that says things must be fair unfortunately...much like "god given rights"..just where are they written?


Alex

[Astrofire (Dale)]

Alex, yes, I have to agree with you with regard to costs. From bitter experience I too have learnt that, unless the money involved is very substantial, the only winners are the solicitors and barristers.

Yes, they do indeed have Peter by the S & C's.

It's unfortunate that what I'd consider (subjectively) to be immoral acts can still be "lawful".....whatever "law" that may actually be......

[Crater101 (Warren)]

Just my five cents worth, as they don't make two cent pieces anymore...


Have you considered going to a Local Court and sitting down with a Chamber Magistrate? A Chamber Magistrate doesn't sit on the bench in judgement, and to the best of my knowledge, there's only a nominal fee charged. They won't be able to solve your issue - they don't act as solicitors - but they will be able to guide you with the best approach to take.You generally need to make an appointment in advance.


Another option is to consider contacting the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal https://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/ From what you've outlined, the matter may be able to be heard there. I believe doing that may be limited by the value of whatever transaction has taken place, so do your research first.


I'm certainly no solicitor, but these are just thoughts / alternatives to consider.