Adani coal mine (Queensland)

[skysurfer]

In the Bisbane Times there is an article about the Roman Catholic and Anglican clergy against Adani.

I am not an Australian, but a European, but I am very worried about the same world we share.
The Adani mine project is IMHO one of the worst projects wasting Queensland, Australia and the rest of the world. A country with so much sunshine in a world with global warming and a 60% bleached Great Barrier Reef by too warm sea water. And yet, in the middle of this bleached GBR, the Adani corporation (and the QLD government ?) wants to contruct a large coal mine and terminal for export to India.
Even for us, amateur astronomers, the port and mine area will generate even more light pollution.

Even when is does provide 10000 jobs, do not do this. In the renewable energy business, the same amount of jobs can be created. Or for a hyperloop or high speed rail link between Sydney-Brisbane-Cairns (as alternative to the cargo rail link between the mine and the harbor).
And India is also gradually converting to renewable, and then Adani loses an important market and then the GBR and the nature reserves of QLD are more destroyed.

What are your opinions ?

[multiweb (Marc)]

Disaster in the making. Coincides with us jumping from 400 to a bit over 403ppm with CO2 concentration in the latest report issued for 2016 alone. Nothing's changing. If anything, faster and in the wrong direction. Brace for impact.

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

I'm all for the mine. Enable millions of Indians to access reliable power.
Skysurfer, you seem to have so many facts wrong - the coal is for overseas customers, so what good will it do to substitute the coal mine for renewable energy in Australia?
Are you aware there are already two large offshore coal export terminals already operating in the reef, and others within major ports, without any damage to the reef.
No, it is Ok for you in your centrally heated European home to have a first world lifestyle at the expense of the environment - an expense paid for by both previous and current high energy consumption by generations of Europeans - but not Indians in the 21st century.

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by skysurfer

Even when is does provide 10000 jobs, do not do this.
What are your opinions ?

I think that there is a bit of fiction regarding the amount of jobs that will be created . There will be a lot of short term jobs during the construction/ development phase but the Adani mine will be well automated so not a lot of long term employment (1250 operational jobs for the mine's 30-year lifespan), so short of royalties I don't think that there is really much of a benefit to Australia long term. There seems to be no mention of the income that royalties will bring maybe the Govt is giving Adani a subsidy on this aspect as well?

Its win win regardless for Adani, the Townsville and Rockhampton councils are paying Adani millions ensure local workers get jobs and are building an airport for Adani as well, the ratepayers will be up the creek if it all falls apart.
https://www.dailymercury.com.au/news...-free/3231476/
https://www.theguardian.com/business...m-for-airstrip

[casstony]

4 Corners exposed Adani's criminal activities and Stephen Long asked the Queensland Premier for comment; she ignored the question.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/diggi...-adani/9008500

Edit: I took The Mekon off my ignore list to see if I'd repeated something he said. Never again. Read "Merchants of Doubt" John or watch the film.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...hants-of-doubt

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

This garbage of Australian taxpayers subsidising foreign billionaires has got to stop.

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

I'm all for the mine. Enable millions of Indians to access reliable power.

That sounds like something straight out of the fossil fuel industry playbook. It is wrong on several levels.

1: This is a decision for the Australian government. Their job is to represent Australians, not Indians.
2: The entire world should not lose out (via climate change) so that one country can benefit.
3: Renewables are fast heading towards becoming base load. This is due to the large number of battery bank projects that are will be commissioned within the next few years. This applies everywhere, not just Australia.
4: Gain from these mines (for India) is temporary, damage (for Australia) is permanent.

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

This garbage of Australian taxpayers subsidising foreign billionaires has got to stop.

Government needs to be very careful re $1billion contribution; it looks financially sus to me.

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by Tropo-Bob

Government needs to be very careful re $1billion contribution; it looks financially sus to me.

That $1billion railway loan is another interesting one Australia is paying for it but Adani will own it. The existing central Qld coal rail network was funded by the Govt but ownership was retained by the Govt and the mines pay to use it now.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

The question has to be asked. "What is the best way to provide reliable power to new customers"? Building thousands of kilometers of transmission and distribution lines, terminal stations, zone substations and substations alongside the building of a gigantic coal mine and coal fired generators to "Deliver" all these people in India out of energy poverty, or the building of localised distribution networks and distributed generation from likely renewable sources (Backed up by energy storage, which is rapidly becoming feasible on the grid scale) I somehow doubt that Adani's motivations are quite so altruistic.

I am not going to use the term "Base load power" as that is a corruption of the term, willingly pushed by the current federal government as it makes a nice sound bite. Base load actually referred to the minimum load that was required/desired for stability's sake when coal fired generation was pretty much it and was intended to overcome a disadvantage inherent to big coal fired plants. They take ages to spin up or shut down so they want a minimum demand to keep assets hot and working, a "Base load" (Load being a measure of demand, not a measure of supply) and is what led to very cheap "Off peak" rates for electric hot water among other things, to shift consumption into the overnight lull and keep the load up and generators running. It is ironic that a major drawback of large coal fired generators is now painted as a virtue. "We really, really don't want to shut this thing down and fire it up again all the time and are prepared to sell you power overnight for a pittance to get you to use some then" has morphed into "We are reliable and always available"

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

That sounds like something straight out of the fossil fuel industry playbook. It is wrong on several levels.

1: This is a decision for the Australian government. Their job is to represent Australians, not Indians.
2: The entire world should not lose out (via climate change) so that one country can benefit.
3: Renewables are fast heading towards becoming base load. This is due to the large number of battery bank projects that are will be commissioned within the next few years. This applies everywhere, not just Australia.
4: Gain from these mines (for India) is temporary, damage (for Australia) is permanent.

So true Ben - you've obviously done your homework mate and what you say makes a lot of sense.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

4: Gain from these mines (for India) is temporary, damage (for Australia) is permanent.

Damage for the whole world is permanent!

I find it incredible that at precisely the same time that the Federal Government is shutting down subsidies for renewable energy, here we are looking at subsidising a coal mine to the tune of $1 billion, all based on totally incredible estimates of the number of jobs that will be created.

Fact check: Will Adani’s coal mine really boost employment by 10,000 jobs?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...63c74e45f4d7c7

If Adani can't raise the full project finance through normal commercial channels, doesn't that in itself tell you all you need to know about the economic viability of the project?

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

The big political problem - given that we have an upcoming state election in QLD - is that both sides of the house support it, despite the overwhelming majority of SE QLDers being against it. Then compounded by a federal government that continues to talk about viable coal power. Beggars belief in a state - and country - with so much sunshine.

The state and federal govts should pour the $1b instead into new projects that can generate greater prosperity for regional QLDers, rather than flogging a dead horse.

It's like car manufacturing all over again...

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

I'm all for the mine. Enable millions of Indians to access reliable power.
Skysurfer, you seem to have so many facts wrong - the coal is for overseas customers, so what good will it do to substitute the coal mine for renewable energy in Australia?
Are you aware there are already two large offshore coal export terminals already operating in the reef, and others within major ports, without any damage to the reef.
No, it is Ok for you in your centrally heated European home to have a first world lifestyle at the expense of the environment - an expense paid for by both previous and current high energy consumption by generations of Europeans - but not Indians in the 21st century.

Laughable response, at best; pure ignorance at worst. It is easy to beat up past generations for developing systems based on their understanding of the world they lived in; a world where global warming was not an issue, where resources were apparently unlimited and where global population was not an issue.

Guess what? The story has changed somewhat since 200+ years ago.

Anyone who sticks their head in the sand in the face of the scientific evidence, is utterly deluded. We have to get off the carbon diet, PERIOD. India also has enormous solar and wind assets. They also need to work on population control and I suspect all the coal in the world wont make them happy if the Ganges dries up. The ice pack on the Himalayas is retreating at a terrifying rate!

Australia, for gawd sake, is one of the renewable richest places on the planet. We ought to be exporting technology for free and leaving the black crap in the ground

[xelasnave]

Buy real estate in Siberia.
alex

[Peter Ward]

If you live in QLD, contact your state member and get in their face. Nothing motivates the pollies more than the spectre of unemployment. Sadly most Australians are simply too apathetic, hence treasonous deals like Adani magically get up time and again....

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Buy real estate in Siberia.
alex

Not going to make the slightest difference Alex... Have a look at the "drunken forests of Siberia"

[DarkKnight (Kev)]

I occasionally ponder, usually after a glass or two of wine, just how much stuff we can dig up and burn before we put our fragile little speck of insignificance (in the overall scheme of things) enough out of balance that we get the wobbles, break orbit, and head off into outer space like a balloon blown up but not tied off.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

... contact your state member and get in their face. ...

The good old days of writing to your local member are gone I'm sorry to say. Perhaps it's because of the sheer volume of stuff they get, but the realities are that incoming emails/letters from constituents and others is so great that pollies have staff who read this stuff and filter it. They send out a stock reply usually enclosing some link to some speech some pollie has made and boasting what great things their party has done etc etc. If your email/letter is about an energy issue, you'll get stock replies about that. If it's about health, education, law and order, etc etc, you'll get stock responses about that as well.

You WILL NOT get any meaningful response to the issue you have raised.

So while I applaud the sentiment, I regret that it is just micturating into the wind.

Peter

[skysurfer]

One question, is the $1bn subsidy from the Qld state or from The Turning Bull ?

Anyway, a viable commercial operation should not be subsidized at all.

Australia, for gawd sake, is one of the renewable richest places on the planet. We ought to be exporting technology for free and leaving the black crap in the ground.

That is what I say as well. But not only Australia, South Africa is also one of the worst offenders, like Australia it has lots of sunshine (Western Cape is as sunny as Perth), but their energy is heavily dependant on coal.
The eMahlaleni (Witbank) coal mine (400km east of Jo'burg) boasts about 'the best coal in the world'.

The same for Saudi Arabia, UAE, the sun is barely harnessed there.

But even here in Europe, in my country (Netherlands) a new government started last week and they want to postpone shutting down the five remaining coal power plants until 2030 "because we won't be dependant on neighboring countries". Another ten years of useless CO2 pollution, even when they store it in the ground (called 'carbon capture and storage' with a nice marketing slogan).
Totally nonsense, as the European grid is completely interweaved, just like the Australian interstate power grid.

The only what counts is MONEY !