Fidel Castro dead at 90

[gary]

New York Times -
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/wo...stro-dies.html

[xelasnave]

He sure was around for a long time and outlasted anyone I can think of.
Alex

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

He sure was around for a long time and outlasted anyone I can think of.
Alex

Queen Elizabeth might take offence Alex...

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Queen Elizabeth might take offence Alex...

I see your point but a silly as this sounds I dont regard her as a political leader.

And he sure had a few people gunning for him.

Alex

[gary]

Coincidentally, Fidel Castro's death is exactly 60 years to the day since
he, Raul and 80 others set sail from Mexico to Cuba on the yacht Granma
on 25th November 1956.

The boat was only designed to carry 25 and the voyage took a week.

Within three days of landing, most of them were dead. Attacks from Baptista's
army resulted in only about twenty of the original 82 having survived.

Countless battles were to follow. So the odds of survival for one of the
original Granma expeditioners was not good.

Long before numerous CIA and mafia plots to assassinate him, Castro
had narrowly escaped the firing squad, had gone through imprisonment,
fought in the mountains and in the streets and chained-smoked his
way through his share of cigars.

Granma was later preserved and you can see it in a glass-walled building a
couple of blocks from Havana Harbor. It is under 24 hour guard.

[Astrophe (John)]

My most vivid memory of Castro's Cuba, was around the events leading up to the Cuban missile crisis....I think that was in 1962. I was in high school at the time and I can recall my mates talking about the possibility of a nuclear war and the end of the world. We were all on tenterhooks for several days, until the Soviets backed down. Scary times.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

My most vivid memory of Castro's Cuba, was around the events leading up to the Cuban missile crisis....I think that was in 1962. I was in high school at the time and I can recall my mates talking about the possibility of a nuclear war and the end of the world. We were all on tenterhooks for several days, until the Soviets backed down. Scary times.

I remember it.
In my classes we all shook hands and basically said our goodbyes as we did not think the Russians would back down. The prospect of war was presented that no one would be alive after the first twenty four hours.

I recall the cold war we were in constant fear of war.
Alex

[deanm (Dean)]

My dad was in the RAF (note: not the RAAF!) on V-bombers, & the only reason our family migrated to Oz 33 years ago was because he was convinced a nuclear war involving the European theater was inevitable.

That didn't happen (obviously), but I'm very glad we ended up in Oz!

The Cold War was not a nice place.

Dean

[clive milne]

I did for a time work for an ex-USAF officer (out of Singapore)
His former role was at the level of directing the deployment of nuclear weapons. He served in the Cuban, Korean and Vietnamese theatres (of war).

It would be fair to say that he (and some of his colleagues) left the air force with an implacable sense of absolute and utter contempt for the upper (political) echelons of the hierarchy.

He recalled that at the hight of the Cuban missile crisis, it was his daily routine to supervise the nuclear weapons loaded on to the bombers.
The flight crew's orders were to proceed to the target and drop them unless they were told otherwise when they got there... at which point, they were to enter a holding pattern (over Cuba) until the fuel ran out.. then return home to fuel up again.

I think it germane to the discussion to point out that Khrushchev's decision to bring nukes to Cuba was in response to the highly provocative stationing of nuclear weapons (by the US) on Russia's door step in Turkey and Italy. It is also worth noting that the reason for the punitive treatment that Cuba has been subjected to (for the last 5 decades) relates to Castro telling certain American financial instruments (we are talking the vultures attached to the oil industry) If you wont respect our national sovereignty, you can basically flick off.. They laughed in Castro's face, He nationalised the oil fields, and the US chose to act as the enforcer for gangster capitalism in response. (as it has done repeatedly and continues to do so till this very day)... This is where Bush senior made a significant portion of his money, he was a CIA NOC, hiding behind an oil industry servicing company as cover.... As history will show, the Bush family went on to become intimately involved with the Bin Ladens - one of the largest construction companies in the Middle East - contracted to build the extensive underground military installations in Afghanistan - sucking the soviets in to an un-winnable war.. Syria anyone?

As a side note... Australia in roughly the same time period, was being milked by the same oilygarchs ... domestically, there was public support and much debate about holding a royal commission in to the affairs of the global oil industry and how it was taking the pi$$ out of Australia... The US state department called the Australian ambassador in to his office to 'clarify' our relationship with America...

quote/unquote... If you proceed with this royal commission and it negatively impacts our trading terms, we reserve the right to destabilise your country politically and economically.. until such time as you reconsider.

The difference between Cuba and Australia might be described as that Castro gave them the bird... we licked their boots.

Khrushchev was later to admit that he backed down because he came to the realisation that he was dealing with the clinically insane.. Bullys who genuinely would incinerate the planet if they didn't get their way.

The world is no different today.

Oh, and one final anecdote from my friend (in the USAF)
One of his fellow officers was called in when his term of service was up.
Glenn described him as this big, loud, baritone, bourbon sipp'n, sax play'n, black guy from Louisiana ... The senior officers express surprise... "why? we assumed you would be a career man in the air force... His response... (classic)
Man, a career guy? you gotta be kidd'n me. When I walk out of here, I'm going to have to find me a back alley where I can suck c0ck for a year, just so I can reclaim my self respect.

Anyhoo... that's some back story for the period.

[xelasnave]

Hi Clive
I think it was on the news so this is heresay but I think the reader said he had 600 CIA sponsored assasination attempts.
Could they be that inefficient? Or was that just something to write on a cheque butt?
You know you are an agent and you blow some cash so write off as a funding an assination attempt.. Would the book keeper ask further questions?
Alex

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

I did for a time work for an ex-USAF officer (out of Singapore)
His former role was at the level of directing the deployment of nuclear weapons. He served in the Cuban, Korean and Vietnamese theatres (of war).

It would be fair to say that he (and some of his colleagues) left the air force with an implacable sense of absolute and utter contempt for the upper (political) echelons of the hierarchy.

He recalled that at the hight of the Cuban missile crisis, it was his daily routine to supervise the nuclear weapons loaded on to the bombers.
The flight crew's orders were to proceed to the target and drop them unless they were told otherwise when they got there... at which point, they were to enter a holding pattern (over Cuba) until the fuel ran out.. then return home to fuel up again.

I think it germane to the discussion to point out that Khrushchev's decision to bring nukes to Cuba was in response to the highly provocative stationing of nuclear weapons (by the US) on Russia's door step in Turkey and Italy. It is also worth noting that the reason for the punitive treatment that Cuba has been subjected to (for the last 5 decades) relates to Castro telling certain American financial instruments (we are talking the vultures attached to the oil industry) If you wont respect our national sovereignty, you can basically flick off.. They laughed in Castro's face, He nationalised the oil fields, and the US chose to act as the enforcer for gangster capitalism in response. (as it has done repeatedly and continues to do so till this very day)... This is where Bush senior made a significant portion of his money, he was a CIA NOC, hiding behind an oil industry servicing company as cover.... As history will show, the Bush family went on to become intimately involved with the Bin Ladens - one of the largest construction companies in the Middle East - contracted to build the extensive underground military installations in Afghanistan - sucking the soviets in to an un-winnable war.. Syria anyone?

As a side note... Australia in roughly the same time period, was being milked by the same oilygarchs ... domestically, there was public support and much debate about holding a royal commission in to the affairs of the global oil industry and how it was taking the pi$$ out of Australia... The US state department called the Australian ambassador in to his office to 'clarify' our relationship with America...

quote/unquote... If you proceed with this royal commission and it negatively impacts our trading terms, we reserve the right to destabilise your country politically and economically.. until such time as you reconsider.

The difference between Cuba and Australia might be described as that Castro gave them the bird... we licked their boots.

Khrushchev was later to admit that he backed down because he came to the realisation that he was dealing with the clinically insane.. Bullys who genuinely would incinerate the planet if they didn't get their way.

The world is no different today.

Oh, and one final anecdote from my friend (in the USAF)
One of his fellow officers was called in when his term of service was up.
Glenn described him as this big, loud, baritone, bourbon sipp'n, sax play'n, black guy from Louisiana ... The senior officers express surprise... "why? we assumed you would be a career man in the air force... His response... (classic)
Man, a career guy? you gotta be kidd'n me. When I walk out of here, I'm going to have to find me a back alley where I can suck c0ck for a year, just so I can reclaim my self respect.

Anyhoo... that's some back story for the period.

Great post Clive. Thanks for posting.

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Castro was a murderous dictator. Whilst no death should ever be celebrated, few who managed to escape his regime would be mourning.
It seems there are so many trendys who seem to like the 'aura' of people like him (how long until Castro starts appearing on fashionable t-shirts?), but have absolutely no idea what he actually did.
Good luck to anyone who was gay, or tried to actually have some say in how they lived their life.
You don't get hundreds of thousands trying to escape a country that has a benevolent ruler.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

...
You don't get hundreds of thousands trying to escape a country that has a benevolent ruler.

You do... if they are mobsters (and their families), or if they had their financial interest affected.
Then, they continue to conduct their negative propaganda from overseas... If nothing else those celebrations are below good taste.
The Cuban people (who are in Cuba now and who are in majority) are the only ones who have right to decide what to do with their country in the future.

[Astrophe (John)]

Post removed

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by aussietrooper

castro was a murderous dictator. Whilst no death should ever be celebrated, few who managed to escape his regime would be mourning.
It seems there are so many trendys who seem to like the 'aura' of people like him (how long until castro starts appearing on fashionable t-shirts?), but have absolutely no idea what he actually did.
Good luck to anyone who was gay, or tried to actually have some say in how they lived their life.
You don't get hundreds of thousands trying to escape a country that has a benevolent ruler.

+1

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

...... You don't get hundreds of thousands trying to escape a country that has a benevolent ruler.

The way I remember the situation there is no restriction on emigration from Cuba. However there are restrictions in immigration to the USA. Cubans cannot enter by the normal channels, they have to arrive on highly-newsworthy leaky boats or, even better, bits of driftwood. Disembarking from jets at Florida airport just wouldn't allow the same spin to be put on the story.

The 'story' of course is that some people are willing to emigrate for financial reasons. Just look at the post-war migration into Australia of people fleeing war-ravaged Europe. Just look at the number of Mexican and other Central and South Americans who flood into the US every year, drawn by the bright lights and the promise of a better future. It's no secret that Cuba is a poor country and so, when the US let it be known that those who arrive via the 'correct' means would be accepted it's no wonder some took up the offer. As for their opinion of Castro, have you asked the Mexicans et al their opinions of their governments?

[xelasnave]

He headed a revolution.
All revolutions have the magic ingredient... "a reign of terror" and it is unfortunately necessary if the change that was fought for is not to be undermined.

I know very little about Cuba but it seems they were delivered better education and better medical services in an economy that was crippled.

I bet Cubans got abig shock in the USA when they took sick.

And of course history will be remembered differently depending on "your side".
Alex

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

As for their opinion of Castro, have you asked the Mexicans et al their opinions of their governments?

Have you?

The trendy logic tends to go along these lines.
- Castro didn't like the USA.
- I don't like the USA.
- Castro must be good.

If it was the same guy doing the same things in Africa, he'd be just another third world dictator and nobody would give a crap, let alone make a hero out of him. But he 'stood up to the US', so he must be someone to be in awe of right?

[bojan]

Originally Posted by AussieTrooper

Have you?

The trendy logic tends to go along these lines.
- Castro didn't like the USA.
- I don't like the USA.
- Castro must be good.

If it was the same guy doing the same things in Africa, he'd be just another third world dictator and nobody would give a crap, let alone make a hero out of him. But he 'stood up to the US', so he must be someone to be in awe of right?

And you know that for sure, do you?

[bojan]

Moderators, please lock this thread.
I have a feeling it will turn ugly... and for what?
We ( Australians) have no business in Cubans affairs... and it should stay that way