This is frightening

Exfso (Peter) · #1 14-10-2016, 06:48 PM

Cold war here we go again, l truly hope common sense prevails.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world...ussia-usa-war/

el_draco (Rom) · #2 14-10-2016, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exfso

Cold war here we go again, l truly hope common sense prevails.

http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world...ussia-usa-war/

Article is pure hyperbole. The Cuban crisis was way hotter than this and the MAD doctrine still prevails. The risk of a war would be massively higher if that skunk headed twerp Trump won. If either side were stupid enough to push the button, then good riddance to the species. Time the roaches had a go anyhow!

JA · #3 14-10-2016, 07:26 PM

Given the proxy (and maybe not so proxy) nature of Russian & US activities in Syria, I wouldn't call it a cold war more bordering on covertly TEPID. The pretext that both sides are there to fight ISIS - nice try spin guys!

Hopefully they can all come back to the table

Best
JA

multiweb (Marc) · #4 14-10-2016, 08:26 PM

The whole Syrian conflict is about getting natural gas pipelines from Saudi Arabia to Europe. That's why everybody's in it. USA, Russia, Turkey, etc... ISIS is just a diversion. France is also lobbying for all the resources recently discovered underground off shore right in front of Syria, in the Mediterranean sea. They're all placing their pawns in place. Once again it is all about natural resources.

alocky (Andrew lockwood) · #5 14-10-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multiweb

The whole Syrian conflict is about getting natural gas pipelines from Saudi Arabia to Europe. That's why everybody's in it. USA, Russia, Turkey, etc... ISIS is just a diversion. France is also lobbying for all the resources recently discovered underground off shore right in front of Syria, in the Mediterranean sea. They're all placing their pawns in place. Once again it is all about natural resources.

Interesting perspective. As someone who works for an oil and gas company with interests in that part of the world, and as someone with more than a passing awareness of how the gas trading world operates - especially around the eastern med, I have not seen anything to support this view. Have you got any evidence to support this? Not only that, but I am not aware of any gas discoveries offshore Syria. Again, something I am paid to be aware of.
There are minor onshore reserves around that ares, but gas is only a tiny part of the energy equation in that part of the world. Still - if you've actually got something to support your theory I'd be very interested to see it.
Cheers
Andrew.

Exfso (Peter) · #6 14-10-2016, 09:18 PM

What really worries me is the fact that Putin is ex KGB, and a nutter to boot, I know "MAD" is supposedly the thing that will stop this, but when a nutter has control over a nuclear arsenal, then it is a whole new ballgame. I put him of the same ilk as Hitler, imagine what he would have done with nukes, the mind boggles.

Interesting times ahead, let sane heads prevail for all our sakes.

multiweb (Marc) · #7 14-10-2016, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alocky

Interesting perspective. As someone who works for an oil and gas company with interests in that part of the world, and as someone with more than a passing awareness of how the gas trading world operates - especially around the eastern med, I have not seen anything to support this view. Have you got any evidence to support this? Not only that, but I am not aware of any gas discoveries offshore Syria. Again, something I am paid to be aware of.
There are minor onshore reserves around that ares, but gas is only a tiny part of the energy equation in that part of the world. Still - if you've actually got something to support your theory I'd be very interested to see it.
Cheers
Andrew.

Hi Andrew, the pipelines routes through Syria and involvement with Qatar, Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Crimea are well publicized online. I'm on a tablet now but will provide some links for you to review from my PC in the morning. As for the natural gas reserves and the French involvment I was discussing that with my dad, earlier in the year. He was in the petro chemical industry with Total and Pechiney St Gobain. I'll dig out some other links and send them to you as well.

clive milne · #8 14-10-2016, 10:03 PM

I expect that this thread will be locked before I find the energy (and time) required to make a contribution worthy of the subject at hand and of a depth of detail sufficient to convey an insight consistent with what is actually going on... there is much afoot and it really is a powder keg... probably as bad (if not worse) than the Cuban missile crisis.

Tomorrow perhaps...

alocky (Andrew lockwood) · #9 14-10-2016, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multiweb

Hi Andrew, the pipelines routes through Syria and involvement with Qatar, Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Crimea are well publicized online. I'm on a tablet now but will provide some links for you to review from my PC in the morning. As for the natural gas reserves and the French involvment I was discussing that with my dad, earlier in the year. He was in the petro chemical industry with Total and Pechiney St Gobain. I'll dig out some other links and send them to you as well.

Thanks - I'm genuinely curious and interested!
I've visited Turkey a few times and absolutely love the place and the people, but for me the history lesson most relevant to this beautiful place tearing itself apart right now is the aftermath of the Crimean war and the lead up to the First World War. Of course it's not exactly the same, but I believe the main drivers are ethnic and ideological rather than commercial.

multiweb (Marc) · #10 14-10-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alocky

Thanks - I'm genuinely curious and interested!
I've visited Turkey a few times and absolutely love the place and the people, but for me the history lesson most relevant to this beautiful place tearing itself apart right now is the aftermath of the Crimean war and the lead up to the First World War. Of course it's not exactly the same, but I believe the main drivers are ethnic and ideological rather than commercial.

Just PMd you some stuff. Will follow up in the morning. Absolutely, there is a lot history and bad blood in the region, tribal unresolved issues.

silv (Annette) · #11 14-10-2016, 10:16 PM

Turkey.... his mighty highness' son-in-law has loads to gain ...
ah, don't get me started... Mr "Unpredictable Tyrant" Erdogan is a much bigger risk than Putin could ever be.
Ah, no, not a "risk" - because that would mean he is not doing anything YET.

But he is. Really... if anything ever called for a Lee Harvey Oswald then this is it.

Exfso (Peter) · #12 15-10-2016, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clive milne

I expect that this thread will be locked before I find the energy (and time) required to make a contribution worthy of the subject at hand and of a depth of detail sufficient to convey an insight consistent with what is actually going on... there is much afoot and it really is a powder keg... probably as bad (if not worse) than the Cuban missile crisis.

Tomorrow perhaps...

Clive I think you are correct it will probably be locked, but the fact is what is happening has the potential to totally stuff humanity. Regardless of underlying facts, when lunatics have control over nukes, Armageddon is a distinct possibility.

el_draco (Rom) · #13 15-10-2016, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exfso

What really worries me is the fact that Putin is ex KGB, and a nutter to boot, I know "MAD" is supposedly the thing that will stop this, but when a nutter has control over a nuclear arsenal, then it is a whole new ballgame. I put him of the same ilk as Hitler, imagine what he would have done with nukes, the mind boggles.

Interesting times ahead, let sane heads prevail for all our sakes.

You've bought in to the whole western propaganda machine regarding Putin. The spin doctors did the same thing throughout the first "Cold War". Russians are Reds, Commies, out to rule the world... crap.

I can assure you, Putin is no "nutter" and if you take a cursory look at recent history, say the last 200 odd years, from a Russian perspective, you'll understand a little more why they don't trust "peace loving" western democracies. Russia has been assaulted by tin pot western dictators repeatedly and they want a barrier between them and the rest of the world... and lets not forget the recent missive from our own little budgy smuggler about "shirt fronting" Putin over MH17; that would be laughable if it weren't so incredibly embarrassing...

Comparing Putin to Hitler is a fallacy. Hitler initiated a war of aggression against his neighbours, Putin has not displayed any of Hitlers insanity. Quite the opposite. The Russians were incredibly restrained when NATO marched into Eastern Europe, for example.

As for Syria, well, as horrible as it is, its just another example of western interference gone wrong. We have this delusional belief that our political system is superior, (though you gotta be wondering by now if you have been following the Yankee election debacle), and yet again, trying to impose our beliefs on others has blown up in our faces. Stupid dogma driven egotists who still have not learned from experience.

Remember, Russia only very recently made an appearance in the Middle East to support an ally. The West has been in there for decades screwing it up. Who is the REAL bad guy here?

Pharian (Christopher) · #14 15-10-2016, 08:30 AM

This threat is nonsense. Trump is in bed with Putin, and Putin wants Trump because he knows how weak Trump will be on the world stage (despite all the rhetoric). Putin isn't stupid enough to start throwing nukes around, no matter what some US media outlets might like us to think.

Renato1 (Renato) · #15 15-10-2016, 10:40 AM

When I read that piece in the New Daily yesterday, i was very disappointed, as the New Daily was missing the equivalent piece on the topic where Waleed Aly inevitably "nail's it".
Regards,
Renato

clive milne · #16 15-10-2016, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alocky

Interesting perspective. As someone who works for an oil and gas company with interests in that part of the world, and as someone with more than a passing awareness of how the gas trading world operates - especially around the eastern med, I have not seen anything to support this view. Have you got any evidence to support this? Not only that, but I am not aware of any gas discoveries offshore Syria. Again, something I am paid to be aware of.
There are minor onshore reserves around that ares, but gas is only a tiny part of the energy equation in that part of the world. Still - if you've actually got something to support your theory I'd be very interested to see it.
Cheers
Andrew.

Andrew,
It is my understanding that the conflict in Syria is NOT driven (entirely) by oil/interests or the proposed(?) Qatar - European pipeline, but they may well be factors.

A few items which may also be germane to the discussion include the oil reserves in the Golan heights and who stands to profit from them.

ie)

NEWARK, N.J., Oct. 9 2015 (UPI) -- Genie Energy, a company with headquarters in the United States, confirmed it made a major discovery of oil and natural gas in the Golan Heights.

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Ene...6461444389373/

In a profile published by Israeli newspaper Haaretz, Genie CEO Jonas was described as one of the primary campaign supporters and U.S. allies of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

The Israeli Ministry of Energy and Water Resources awarded a drilling permit to Genie (local subsidiary - Afek Oil and Gas) for territory in southern Syria (Golan Heights) in 2013.

The 'strategic advisory' board for Genie energy includes the following members:
former Vice President Dick Cheney, Michael Steinhardt, Jacob Rothschild, Rupert Murdoch, R. James Woolsey, Jr., Lawrence Summers and Bill Richardson.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_Energy

Rupert Murdoch is on record as stating that he isn't so much interested in reporting on global politics as he is in using his media empire to influence them.

Stealing Syrian oil is of course highly illegal and a violation of international law... not so much if you can manipulate your proxies into destroying the Syrian government and re-draw the map so to speak. And much easier if the people who set the public narrative (~cough~manufacture consent~cough~) are on board and profit from the deception.

The Syrian conflict predates Golan oil interests by a number of years, so it isn't by any means the cause.

However...
Whilst you might never see a vulture bring down a wilder-beast, they will invariably be front and centre when it's time to pick over the scraps.

~c

multiweb (Marc) · #17 15-10-2016, 02:34 PM

This is an older report but offers a bit of history and context in a chronoligical manner.

pmrid (Peter) · #18 15-10-2016, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pharian

This threat is nonsense. Trump is in bed with Putin, and Putin wants Trump because he knows how weak Trump will be on the world stage (despite all the rhetoric). Putin isn't stupid enough to start throwing nukes around, no matter what some US media outlets might like us to think.

As a committed cynic, my instinct tells me the reason Putin seems to have a liking for Trump is not because of the latters's sunny disposition and blokey sense of humour. My gut tells me that with Trump at the helm, Putin can see an America grossly divided, racked by internal schisms and unable to function effectively at home or abroad. In the chaos of a disordered America, Putin can see delicious opportunities that he can exploit.
Peter

silv (Annette) · #19 15-10-2016, 06:08 PM

Interesting.
These are all "known forces" you are talking about.
They just do what they've always done, anyway.
[And cause suffering for normal people in those regions, of course. ]

In that regard the risk for traditionally "western" states, i.e. people is low.

In comes an unknown force: Erdogan. That's a game changer. He's not playing by the rules established by the old players.
He's openly running amok. Supporting ISIS with weapons, performing genocide on Kurds, scaring the Turkish population into silence so no resistance against him will ever be possible again.

What's scary about that?
Turkey is a NATO state - and by inheritance somewhat entangled with the European populace and politics.

This crazy man Erdogan has the potential to fatally affront some state leader in the oil region - and then "we" are all hanging by the same NATO noose.

raymo · #20 15-10-2016, 07:16 PM

The real problem with Erdogan, is that he will be hard to remove, because
he is admired and fervently supported by the older, more conservative citizens, who strongly dislike Turkey being a secular state, and want Islam's power reinstated, and the country returned to how it was before Ataturk.
Wow, that was a long sentence!
raymo