guns and the US Republican Convention

[Shiraz (Ray)]

some things that are banned in the Convention event security zone:
coolers
rope
string
tennis balls
water pistol

some things that are OK to carry in the Convention event security zone:
AR15 assault rifle
Glock 9mm automatic
pump action shotgun

ye gods!!!

[DJT (David)]

Jeez...where is the emo for head slap?



That'll do..

[sn1987a (Barry)]

it's a good way to get ratings

[glend (Glen)]

It's a very different world over there, and lets keep it over there.

[Exfso (Peter)]

As crazy as it sounds, Isis/terrorists probably will leave mainland USA alone, the Americans are killing more of themselves than they could ever hope to accomplish.
Gawd what a sad state of affairs...

[traveller (Bo)]

Every time there is a mass shooting in America the stocks of gun makers go up. Go figure.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by glend

It's a very different world over there, and lets keep it over there.

I lived there for a year. Day one in Nevada I was introduced to the vehicle I was driving complete with 12 guage pump, 9mm handgun, long barrelled 45 and a 22. They were gobsmacked when I declined my "personal" protection. That was almost 30 years ago.

The American dream has become the American nightmare and the mentality of the place makes me think Russian is a better bet most of the time.

[Shiraz (Ray)]

I have grandchildren living in Texas. Scary.

I don't understand how they could build up such competent armed services to protect their society from violence perpetrated by others and then let the gun worship cancer grow within that society to the point where home-grown deadly violence is the norm. Anything to make a buck.

[AndrewJ]

Its a sad indictment on how they operate, but the best one i heard yesterday was that they are thinking of banning guns inside the upcoming Trump Convention.
Must be for Donnies safety.

Andrew

Latest DFAT travel advice for the US

How to avoid being killed if pulled over for a traffic stop?
Shoot first.

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

I have grandchildren living in Texas. Scary.

I don't understand how they could build up such competent armed services to protect their society from violence perpetrated by others and then let the gun worship cancer grow within that society to the point where home-grown deadly violence is the norm. Anything to make a buck.

Ray, it is in their Constitution, the 'right to bear arms', but of course what was written back in the 1770's to enshrine the right of the colonies to raise a militia to defend themselves from the British professional army, has been warped into justification for every man, woman, and child to own an arsenal. They are so deeply submerged in it that it seems normal. Most Americans never travel outside the US, and have no chance to encounter safe gun free environments, like Australia's, Canada, etc. I imagine Canada Customs must encounter this problem everyday at traffic border crossing, where 'packing' Yanks are turned around.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by glend

Ray, it is in their Constitution, the 'right to bear arms', but of course what was written back in the 1770's to enshrine the right of the colonies to raise a militia to defend themselves from the British professional army, has been warped into justification for every man, woman, and child to own an arsenal. They are so deeply submerged in it that it seems normal. Most Americans never travel outside the US, and have no chance to encounter safe gun free environments, like Australia's, Canada, etc. I imagine Canada Customs must encounter this problem everyday at traffic border crossing, where 'packing' Yanks are turned around.

I imagine you are right about Canadian Customs. However, I think Canada has similar rates of gun ownership to the US but doesn't have the gun crime rate. The people of Switzerland are also heavily armed but AFAIK they also have very little gun violence. There seems to be something more to the US problem, something that has gotten into their psyche. I'm not suggesting gun control wouldn't be a good thing, I'm all for it, but I just wonder why the citizens of the US use their gun so much more than others.

[glend (Glen)]

David, having spent over three decades in Canada I have some knowledge of that environment. Gun ownership in Canada is significantly lower than the US, and many other countries. Canada ranks 12th on the per capita ownership rate chart (at 30.8 per 100 people) but of course some people will own more than one so the actual number of people owning guns is much lower. Canada ranks lower than Sweden and Norway on the per capita ownership list, the US of course is way ahead of all countries. Australia is in 26th place on the chart with 21.7 per 100 people).

Compared to the loose regulatory regime in the US, Canada has a very different and difficult set of rules in regards to safety training, access to guns and licensing, and transport of guns: all of which is controlled by the RCMP. Ownership cannot be transfered without applying to the RCMP.
Magazine capacity is restricted to five rounds for most magazines designed for rifles that shoot centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic fashion, or ten rounds for most handgun magazines.

It an offence to possess prohibited or restricted firearms other than at a dwelling-house or authorized location. A special permit is required to tranport any weapon to any other location, issued by the RCMP.

Sorry for the long response, but it does serve to show that regulation can work, and in some ways the Canadian regs are similiar to Australian regs. Of course Australia requires a gun safe for storage, but Canada uses trigger locks and bolt removal, etc all in all they are not that different.

[casstony]

I suspect the wealth divide and greater poverty in the US (created the elite and maintained by aspirational voters) would be the root cause of greater levels of violence - throw in drug abuse and guns and it's a potent mixture.

[pmrid (Peter)]

There was an item on the TV last night in which a commentator drew a connection between racial tensions between black, hispanic etc people and police. The point was made that the rate of assaults by police were disproportionately high among that grouping. We hear similar comments here about high levels of incarceration.

But nobody seems to make the response that the level of offending behaviour among those groups is also disproportionately high. Are we so hooked on the PC line that we are afraid to voice the obvious? Police should not be expected to put themselves in harms way for the sake of political correctness.

Peter.

[clive milne]

Here's the correlation between gun ownership and homicide rate:

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter...31-3.17-AM.png

Switzerland is worth contemplating... second highest gun ownership rate in the world and probably highest if you include the guns that it's citizens (who do national service) store at home. The survey excludes these guns because "technically" they are owned by the Swiss government. Basically, anyone and everyone in that country has easy access to a firearm. That society has one of the lowest rates of violent crime in the world. The number of police officers in the US is 270 times higher (per capita) than in Switzerland.

There is however a strong correlation between social injustice and violence.
Watch the monkey - grape experiment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

Here's a good TED talk about the root cause of dysfunction in society:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw

It's pretty much down to a reaction against injustice, inequality and corruption.

This is an insight in to the bald faced, blazing hypocrisy of the US government and their support for cold blooded murderers ... when it suits a politically convenient narrative :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTKDMYOBOU

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by casstony

I suspect the wealth divide and greater poverty in the US (created the elite and maintained by aspirational voters) would be the root cause of greater levels of violence - throw in drug abuse and guns and it's a potent mixture.

Yes... it says something about the values of US society when you compare them to a borderline third world country like Cuba, which has a better standard of education and easier access to health care even though they have little in the way of natural resources and have suffered under crippling, punitive sanctions... at the behest of American corporations no less.

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Here's the correlation between gun ownership and homicide rate:

http://crimepreventionresearchcenter...31-3.17-AM.png

Switzerland is worth contemplating... second highest gun ownership rate in the world and probably highest if you include the guns that it's citizens (who do national service) store at home. The survey excludes these guns because "technically" they are owned by the Swiss government. Basically, anyone and everyone in that country has easy access to a firearm. That society has one of the lowest rates of violent crime in the world. The number of police officers in the US is 270 times higher (per capita) than in Switzerland.

There is however a strong correlation between social injustice and violence.
Watch the monkey - grape experiment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

Here's a good TED talk about the root cause of dysfunction in society:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw

It's pretty much down to a reaction against injustice, inequality and corruption.

This is an insight in to the bald faced, blazing hypocrisy of the US government and their support for cold blooded murderers ... when it suits a politically convenient narrative :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaTKDMYOBOU

You post some amazing stuff Clive, - always interesting imo. Thanks for sharing

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Its a sad indictment on how they operate, but the best one i heard yesterday was that they are thinking of banning guns inside the upcoming Trump Convention.
Must be for Donnies safety.

Andrew

yep, my understanding is that the secret service put their foot down and banned anything dangerous in the inner sanctum - but the good ol' boys are still able to openly carry their guns in the rest of the secured zone.

[AndrewJ]

my understanding is that the secret service put their foot down and banned anything dangerous in the inner sanctum

Obviously, ideas are excluded from the ban?????

Andrew

[sn1987a (Barry)]

I hope he wins