International Dark-Sky Association

[glenc (Glen)]

Is anyone going to the
International Dark-Sky Association

First Asia-Pacific meeting

IDA is pleased to announce its First Asia-Pacific Conference, to be held 26–28 October 2006 in Sydney, Australia. The Conference will occur together with the Illuminating Engineering Society of Australia and New Zealand (IESANZ) Annual Convention, with the theme “Our Lighting Future.”

http://www.darksky.org/



?

[Starkler (Geoff)]

If I were in Sydney, I would definitely want to go.

[RAJAH235]

I will await with baited breath, the 'outcome' of this conference.
(I wonder if I can hold on till something is actually done about the atrocious lighting rules/regs that are currently in force)???

A pet hate of mine, is the apparent lack of interest shown by all the RTA/Energy Authorites & local Council officials that I have talked to re; the blinding road lighting & signage/car yard/golf courses & building illumination that makes it very dangerous to drive your car anywhere. When it rains, it is even more dangerous because of the reflection off the wet road..
I hope that something very positive comes out of this one. We can but, 'keep everything crossed'.
L.

[glenc (Glen)]

Yes. There is no need for fixed lights that shine upwards or sideways, apart from traffic lights, lights to guide planes, etc
I drive with my sunvisor down at night to stop the glare from streetlights.
Bad outdoor lighting is like noise pollution for me.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

You've got my signature on any petitions to control the abuse of the night sky. Good luck with the conference. Any chance of putting together a conference organised street demonstration. I'd even fly to Sydney to join in that.

[Lee]

I've switched off my outdoor sensor light.... hope it helps!
Seriously - my neighbours sensors annoy me so much, I turned mine off in case there was a fellow gazer in an adjacent yard swearing at mine!
People tend to point their lights horizontal too, obviously to maximise its range across their yards - and everyone elses....

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

I hope the conference is a success & has some positive & concrete outcomes.
However, my experience with IDA was not so great, our club joined (Paid) got a thank you Email. then nothing !
No: *please add your voice to this campaign *These are the latest innovations in best lighting practice * Here is a newsletter .........
Most dissapointed

[scumbag1010]

There is a local branch of the IDA in Sydney. It is headed by Lighting engineer Reg Wilson( a non-astronomer).

Having been a member of IDA for over 10 years and with much experience attending meetings and talks on the subject, astronomy is the last word on anyones lips.

Rational thinking and plain old economics has more effect than passion, believe me. If you are thinking of attending the conference, be very prepared with your information and remember the conference is basically for light engineers not astronomers.

You can also join SOLIS, (Sydney Outdoor Lighting Improvement Society), a local organisation that helps fight light pollution. Most of it's members are either members of astronomical societies or astronomers. There are also people from Standards Australia as well as lighting engineers that attend the meetings held at Sydney Observatory.

Again remember that astronomy is not spoken of, we are seen as a small group of people involved in an esoteric science that has no commercial (and therefore financial) gain.

Also green house is not a threat. Governments and Authorities like to seen to be doing something, but at the end of the day, they really don't give a ....

cheers

Don Whiteman

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

we are seen as a small group of people involved in an esoteric science that has no commercial (and therefore financial) gain.

Don, any idea at the total number of amateur astronomers practicing their science in Aus atm. If accurate figures could be compiled, that may just be enough to bring us in out of the cold and be realized as a force to be reckoned with.

[scumbag1010]

Hi Paul,

In the past there have been submissisons from such organisations as The Anglo Australian Observatory in regards to the lighting on Anzac Bridge in Sydney.

One would think that coming from such a group as this that it would carry some weight. Deaf Ears.

Ther are currently around 5000 members of Amateur societies in Australia. Deaf Ears.

There are over 20,000 people that own telescopes in Australia. If every one of them were to make a submisssion that the light pollution interferes with their astronomy, th eresult would be . Deaf Ears.

As i said in my previous post, we are a small group of people involved in an esoteric science that has no commercial (and therefore financial) gain.

If we were able to show the $$$$ that could be saved by the whole of Australia by using currently available sensible lighting we would have a small chance to make some difference.

I remember a submisssion made only 3 years ago where the people at the meeting were armed to the eye teeth with data that frankly amazed the lighting engineers that had come to speak. Right down to how many lumens each street light emits. The life expectency of each light used, the angle of the light emitted, the spacing that could be used to effect the same amount of light whilst cutting down on actual light fitttings, the cost saving in materials and labour, the cost saving in electricity.

Where are we now?

In exactly the same position we were 10 minutes before that meeting. Hopeful that one day we will see the light( no pun) but really pushing ... uphill.

Normally I am a lurker, (I can't be accused of making biased comments) however, this is a subject that is very close to my heart. You may have noticed over the years the number of time our publication Night Sky has publically shamed Sydney City Council. Some you win (westpac tower) most you don't.

cheers

Don Whiteman

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Thanks for your input Don.

Yes Bureaucratic inertia driven by corporate financial lobbying, is a phenomenal force and imo has a far greater impact on our daily lives than the other 4 fundamental forces. Maybe when coal starts to become as expensive as petrol the masses might move.

Cheers

[scumbag1010]

Ah Paul,

Never abandon all hope.
By aiming the taalks at Lighting Engineers we are slowly educating them.

Less is Best.

Don't let me discourage you. Maintain the rage.

Cheers
Don

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

NP there, I live next door to two tennis courts and a bowls club.

[RAJAH235]

Hi Don, like you, I have been talking to 'deaf' people as well for the last 8 years.
No local councils/RTA etc etc, will take any notice of what I/we say because of your stated facts. No money in it...& they are complying with the current rules n regs.
We, W.A.A.C.ers, invited Reg down to give a presentation a few years ago but nothing really came out of it. We are just too few to make any difference.
Reg has been trying his hardest since being on/in the IDA but .........
I/we can just sit back & wait.
..L.

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

Well, as it turns out I well may be attending this conference as part of my training as a lighting designer (a sideline in my work).
So if you want a sympathetic voice "within" the industry ....... I may be able to speak on behalf of us who are "assualted" by poor outdoor light on a regular basis.
I just have to get the training "Approved".

[glenc (Glen)]

Thanks Ian.
It would be nice if all fixed lights were limited to shining on the owner's property and streetlights only shone on council/government land. The exceptions would be moving lights (eg headlights) and lights that control transport (eg control towers, lighthouses, traffic lights) This would improve road safety too.

[CoombellKid]

Here's one fix, move to the bush : ) it the best place to be if your into
astronomy. Lets face it.... if you live near suburbia your going to have
light polution... I dont think you will ever be able to change it or avoid it.


regards,CS sunny days

Rob

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

You are right Rob, you certainly cant avoid it altogether.
However we can work to manage & mitagate adverse lightings effects.
Just like risk, it is there all the time, the key thing is how we control it !

[JoeBlow (Joe)]

For some good news, it appears that some Sydney councils are starting to install full cut-off fixtures on Major roads, for example in Liverpool along Cowpasture Rd, Hoxton Park Rd and the M7 (installed just recently). I also see many private Businesses and premises starting to use full cut-off fixtures. I think people are just starting to wake up to the economic benefits of efficient lighting. I'm a bit optimistic and can see that with the coming years more and more businesses and government organisations will start using efficient lighting.

[tornado33]

Yes I hope the conference goes well.
What amazes me is the horribly inefficient mercury vapour streetlights in use everywhere now. They spread more light sideways and up then downwards where its needed. If a proper shielded light was made, it would only need a bulb of 1/2 the wattage, resulting in huge savings in running costs. Its like they just want to throw money away.
Scott