Cheap eBay Celestron binoculars: for real?

[Mokusatsu (Australia)]

There is a vendor on eBay right now (ausriver) selling Celestron binoculars (e.g. 20x80 Skymaster) for a much cheaper price than local optical stores. The price is about $100 less than most other offers, including other eBay vendors.

They're not a specialist optical vendor, they sell a few types of binoculars but they are a general store which sells the usual assortment of inexpensive Chinese stuff. In feedback there are a couple of negative reviews, but mostly positive feedback.

I am wondering if they are for real. There is no point paying a "good" price if they're a cheap fake with lousy optics.

Has anyone bought one of these binoculars off them and was the item that arrived apparently a genuine Celestron product of acceptable quality?

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Hi,

IMHO a brand rip-off. I bought a pair of fake Nikon binoculars like that, and got suspicious about the detail finishing when they arrived. I put it to the seller directly, and he refunded them.

The brand owners find this almost impossible to suppress permanently.

Cheers

[dannat (Daniel)]

The skymasters are very cheap in the US, much overpriced here

Their build quality is both cheap & lousy

[julianh72 (Julian)]

That's just the FYYAA Tax * at work!

Search for "Celestron SkyMaster 15x70" (RRP about AU$300 here) on eBay Australia, and you'll find them offered for about AU$160 - AU$250 delivered. Change your search scope from eBay Australia to include worldwide sellers, and you'll find plenty of sources offering them for not much over AU$110 including delivery to an Australian address.

And retailers want to know why we're all shopping online from overseas sellers these days?

[OzStarGazer]

AusRiver have their own store warranty because they are not authorized Celestron retailers in Australia. I personally don't care and prefer to pay less and buy from them or Andrews if it costs less... Er... CONSIDERABLY less...

[Mokusatsu (Australia)]

You say the Skymasters are cheap and nasty, which they may well be relative to the $1,000+ one can spend on high end binoculars.

Can anyone recommend a "good value" large binoculars as an alternative, if not the Celestrons?

I'm a student, my budget is tiny. I'd get my 8" f6 Newtonian with Parkes Optical mirrors realuminised but I can't afford it, large binoculars (and a planned wooden DIY parallellogram mount) are my re-entry point into the hobby...

Alternatively, I'd put a "wanted" ad in the classifieds for a 2nd hand 70-80mm binoculars at a reasonable price, but I have only just joined this forum and I'm barred from doing so for some time.

[dannat (Daniel)]

id be looking at either the andrewscom.com.au 20x80, or
matt at telescopesastronomy.com.au in SA has some decent 13or15x70 binos available [this is what i would recommend]
-keep in mind apart from very short looks a bino of 15x power or above needs to be tripod mounted

i find i use a 15x power bino much more than 20x power -its signif. less weight is a big factor -& i can scan with it handheld for a little while -the weight & shaky image of the 20x power stops me doing this with that model

[Mokusatsu (Australia)]

I have ATM experience, I'be built several mounts for my 8" DOB including two dobs and a modified fork. I would definitely be building a decent mount for the large binos. Assuming I succeed in building a reasonably steady and convenient mount, and given that I have 10x50s already for wider fields, wha are people's thoughts on 15x vs 20x?

[RobF (Rob)]

Hey Mokusatsu, unless you've got skill collimating binocs you probably don't really want to be dealing with an OS vendor. Nothing worse than having the slightest mis-alignment when you first use them.

You really would need some sort of mount or stabilising mechanism once over 10x magnification. There are threads on Ice about building binoc mounts. I hope you find some nice binocs in the end. So convenient and pleasing to be able to cruise the skies with regardless of what telescope you also have. This thread reminds me I've really got to get a decent reclining chair after test driving some of the decadent lounge-rigs at Qld astrofest this year

[killswitch (Edison)]

Im fairly certain those 20x80 binos are the same rebadged ones that Andrews and Orion sell.

They are good optics for the money but they dont hold collimation as well so you need to learn how to collimate. Collimating might sound hard, but its really just adjusting two screws.

[Mokusatsu (Australia)]

I've never collimated a refractor/binoculars but between Texeraeu and the Internet I should be able to figure out how... hopefully.

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

Originally Posted by Mokusatsu

I've never collimated a refractor/binoculars but between Texeraeu and the Internet I should be able to figure out how... hopefully.

Unfortunately - collimating binos requires a fairly specialised lump of gear. I've got a pair of 20x100 if you want to try them out to see what they're like. I'm not far away from leeming - send a pm.
Cheers,
Andrew.

[Mokusatsu (Australia)]

I Googled for collimation of the Celestrons:

http://www.astronomyforum.net/astron...ter-20x80.html

http://www.amazon.com/review/R33PKNL...iglink21508-20

It doesn't look too intimidating.

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

I stand corrected - the binocular collimating setups I'd previously seen involved rather large optical flats and optical benches.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Mokusatsu

I Googled for collimation of the Celestrons:

http://www.astronomyforum.net/astron...ter-20x80.html

http://www.amazon.com/review/R33PKNL...iglink21508-20

It doesn't look too intimidating.

Proper collimation of binoculars requires proper binocular collimator's to do it correctly, with precise alignment. End of story!

Yes, it can be done without (by using the eye), but the real issue there is that if it isn't done correctly, your eyes will attempt to adjust for incorrect collimation, which you cannot see by eye, and thus cause eye strain.

Incorrect collimation is the main cause of eye strain when using binoculars.

Cheap binoculars usually go out of collimation quite easily due to the poor internal construction, which cannot resist knocks and drops. This is one of the main reasons why high quality binoculars are expensive, as they have better internal construction, as well as better optics. I have seen many many examples of poor collimation over the years, when people thought that they were aligned properly, but they weren't. It is costly getting a pair of bino's collimated, around $50, last time I looked.

But, it is all a trade-off, price vs quality. To get high quality optics and high quality construction cost much more. You simply cannot get both these attributes in a cheap pair of binoculars.

Cheers Peter

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by alocky

I stand corrected - the binocular collimating setups I'd previously seen involved rather large optical flats and optical benches.

Hi Andrew,

I used to work with a guy in Perth who collimated binoculars and he used the Zeiss collimator. I think he is still doing them.

To do it properly isn't as easy as everyone seem to think.

Since getting military binoculars, due to their strong construction, I haven't had any issues with collimation. But, they don't come cheap, although they are cheaper today than they were when I bought them in the 80's.

Cheers Peter

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

But, it is all a trade-off, price vs quality. To get high quality optics and high quality construction cost much more. You simply cannot get both these attributes in a cheap pair of binoculars.

But you CAN get reasonable optical quality and "OK" build quality for MUCH less than the price of premium equipment, and that's a perfectly acceptable compromise in my book! It means that the joys of astronomy have been opened up for me and many others in ways unimaginable just a few years ago.

Sure, premium Optics are a joy to own, if you can afford them, but I believe most users can get at least 80% of the pleasure for 20% of the price. If you look after them, they will continue to give pleasure for many years. If you drop them, you can buy another pair and still be well in front. If you decide that you want to move up to premium Optics, give the cheaper pair to a child, and give them the gift of the love of astronomy for life.

[Mokusatsu (Australia)]

Re value for money... I'm about to finish my fifth year of a 6 year degree, after which I expect my financial circumstances to change rather significantly.

For me a pair of largish "good enough" binos are my re-entry point until I can get the cash together to have my 8" Parkes Optical newt mirrors realuminised (not done for 20 years, the reflectivity is so bad the scope is virtually unusable), and then after that consider more "premium" options like a big goto dob and maybe a big refractor or mak somewhere down the line.

Plus, I've managed to talk my wife into going camping with me in Dwellingup around the new moon a couple of days before Christmas and I really want something to take with me for that trip!

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by julianh72

But you CAN get reasonable optical quality and "OK" build quality for MUCH less than the price of premium equipment, and that's a perfectly acceptable compromise in my book! It means that the joys of astronomy have been opened up for me and many others in ways unimaginable just a few years ago.

Sure, premium Optics are a joy to own, if you can afford them, but I believe most users can get at least 80% of the pleasure for 20% of the price. If you look after them, they will continue to give pleasure for many years. If you drop them, you can buy another pair and still be well in front. If you decide that you want to move up to premium Optics, give the cheaper pair to a child, and give them the gift of the love of astronomy for life.

Hi Julian,

Yes Julian, I do agree with all you say, it is always a trade-off, price vs quality.

Of course you can get a good binocular for a reasonable price, and I might add, some binoculars are optically quite good for the price, however, the trade off is often the construction, which you cannot actually see or clearly determine, without the requisite knowledge.

Not much point buying a really cheap binocular that goes out of collimation easily. Some binoculars are very poorly constructed. And the caveat there, as you mentioned is that they need to be carefully looked after, very carefully in some circumstances. Leaving them in a ute, to bounce around doesn't do them any good, even when they are in a case, as I found out on the farm. But then, that is where I needed them the most. But, in those days, I simply didn't know any better about quality construction. That didn't come until much later.

I also agree that it may be cheaper to just throw them away and buy a new pair, I used to do that myself, as you are definitely in front financially, as collimating binoculars costs a fair bit and isn't worth it on cheap binoculars. However, that doesn't help when you actually go to use them only to find that it is out of collimation. I found that particularly annoying.

In choosing a new binocular, I faced this very dilemma last year. I had decided to buy a premium compact binocular and my budget was set at a grand, thinking that I could get a premium binocular for that price. How wrong I was, in checking out the market I just couldn't find that happy medium between quality and price. That is, I could easily get the quality of optics, but not the rugged and water proof construction, which I needed, as I was travelling extensively. They also needed to be waterproof, as there is nothing worse than a binocular that fogs up internally due to rapid temperature changes. Most waterproof binoculars are also nitrogen purged to prevent this moisture transfer.

To get the quality construction and quality optics I had to spend over twice the amount in the end. And that hurt, at the time. I made the difficult decision to get what I wanted, rather than what I could afford. And, I do realise not every one can do that. At the time, I would rather have had the extra money for my trip.

Since I already owned a premium 7x50 binocular, the real problem with all this is that once you have owned a premium binocular, it is hard to go back to something less.

Although, both times I bought binoculars, I couldn't really afford to spend that sort of money, but I have never regretted doing so.

So, whilst all binoculars, more or less look the same, there are vasts differences in what you are buying.

Caveat Emptor still applies.

As for giving children cheap binoculars, and although I essentially agree with you, I would not advocate doing so now, as poor quality optics or misalignment can cause eye strain and headaches, and that is an important consideration. As a child I was given a poor quality 8x30 binocular, from memory and used to get headaches when using them, but I slowly realised that if I closed one eye, that didn't happen. In the end, I sawed it in half and used it as a monocular, and took it everywhere with me. I had no idea, not an inkling, about collimation then. It was, very much, trial and error.

Cheers Peter