ABC Radio Science Talkback

Baddad (Marty) · #1 15-05-2014, 11:04 AM

I made a small contribution to the above titled show this morning.

A query arose years ago. Dr Karl Kruszelnicki was unable to answer it. He excused himself that he needed to perform some research on it but I never heard any answers from succeeding shows.

I assume it was a golfer who asked: When teeing off and the golf ball travels forward, why does the plastic tee go backwards?
In my limited experience I have noted that this is often the case, the tee does fly backwards

I came up with an answer that Dr Karl was suitably impressed with.
I'll let you ponder this and I'd be interested if anyone can produce an acceptable solution or the same answer that I had. There's plenty of members who I am sure are capable and more so than I am.

Answer tomorrow

Cheers

goober (Doug) · #2 15-05-2014, 11:53 AM

Are using an iron or a driver. It matters

Baddad (Marty) · #3 15-05-2014, 11:57 AM

Hi Doug,

Are using an iron or a driver. It matters

That was not specified. I can not see why it may affect the result in any major way.

Cheers

Ric · #4 15-05-2014, 12:14 PM

As a golfer I've noticed that effect as well.

It seem the same with either an iron or wood.

I've always thought it was due to some sort of vacuum created in the air behind the club head as it swings through the arc.

As the tee pops up it is caught in the vacuum and pulled backwards.

Just a thought. Cheers

Pinwheel (Doug) · #5 15-05-2014, 12:27 PM

Newtons Third law- For every action there is an opposite reaction. QED

Ball goes forward Tee goes backwards.

F AB = - F BA

AstralTraveller (David) · #6 15-05-2014, 01:00 PM

Guess #1:

The tee is flexed forward by the impact. Even if you completely miss the tee force will be transferred to the tee by the ball (of course if you play golf like me you will miss both the ball and the tee). This loosens the tee in the soil. It then springs backwards and flicks itself out of the ground. If this so then, if you hit the ball straight forward the tee should go straight backwards. If you pull the shot the tee should move backwards and away from you and if you slice the tee should go back and slightly towards you.

Baddad (Marty) · #7 15-05-2014, 01:10 PM

Not bad David, but no cigar.

Here's a clue. Have you ever pulled a golf ball apart as a child?

Cheers

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #8 15-05-2014, 01:15 PM

When I was younger I played a bit of very bad golf and sometimes would practice swinging the club with a empty tee and if you just flicked the top of the tee with the club it would fly backwards. Catch too much of the tee and it would be hit forwards. So conclusion is that the backwards flick has nothing to do with the ball but is simply the spring action of the tee in the grass flicking it out.
Also if the is only loose dirt or sand it is nearly impossible to make it flick backwards.

Malcolm

Steffen · #9 15-05-2014, 01:40 PM

Golf doesn't follow the laws of physics. How is it possible that the club hits the back of my head and the ball doesn't even move?

Cheers
Steffen.

Baddad (Marty) · #10 15-05-2014, 02:03 PM

Good try Malcolm,

It does flick back from loose sand and even more so because it is loose when a ball is struck.

On the empty tee flicking back; If the club touches the forward edge of the tee it will flick back but this is not quite what happens when the ball is struck.

It does have everything to do with the ball however. Like I wrote earlier. Answer tomorrow. It is the answer that Dr Karl agreed with. I wonder if Mythbusters would be interested?

Steffen

You're holding your mouth wrong.

Cheers

strongmanmike (Michael) · #11 15-05-2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steffen

Golf doesn't follow the laws of physics. How is it possible that the club hits the back of my head and the ball doesn't even move?

Cheers
Steffen.

graham.hobart (Graham stevens) · #12 15-05-2014, 02:25 PM

you wack the ball hard- as it is elastic it deforms downwards as well as forwards for a nanosecond transferring thrust or inertia to the tee, then the golf ball shoots off, the tee is projected down then backwards ?
Just a guess ( I don't play golf!)

Baddad (Marty) · #13 15-05-2014, 02:52 PM

Well done Graham,

That is the answer.

The ball has elastic properties It becomes egg shaped as it leaves the club and the tee. As it reforms into its spherical shape it flicks the tee. All in the instant before it travels down the fairway.

However in Steffen's case it does not happen until he learns how to hold his mouth the right way.

Pinwheel (Doug) · #14 15-05-2014, 02:58 PM

FOWL

By that description this is still Newtons 3rd law.

Show me the Math...

F AB = - F BA

graham.hobart (Graham stevens) · #15 15-05-2014, 03:17 PM

Hey do I win a golf trip to Parkes ?!!

Pinwheel (Doug) · #16 15-05-2014, 03:39 PM

It's bad enough that the laws of physics were ignored, but to let a Tasmanian win...Well I mean Tasmania, it not like it's a real part of Australia is it..

Baddad (Marty) · #17 15-05-2014, 05:03 PM

To Graham, NO I could give you a cigar? Cheap one.

Hey Doug, In Dr Karl's words: That is basic physics laws. He was impressed as I mentioned earlier.

The host chipped in that this will probably be a point of conversation between golfers in the weeks to come.

Graham was so close even that his explanation was not 100% it was so close that I had to give it to him as he is an unfortunate hailing from the southern land. Sorry, I just can not say Tasmania, It makes me shiver.

Doug, you can't put Graham down as bad as that. You are closer to him than me. Vic.
That is just as bad. We Banana Benders call you both Mexicans

Cheers guys and thanks for trying

raymo · #18 16-05-2014, 12:10 AM

I'm not trying to propose a different reason for the tee flying backwards;
I'm just curious to know why well over 90% of my tee shots end up with the tee around 3 to 5 metres forward of the impact point, and sticking up out of the ground with the cupped top of the tee pointing back at me. I have just thought of another possible contributing factor to your
answer. If the club passes the lowest part of it's swing slightly before impact, it will be rising as it strikes the ball, and will impart some top spin. The forward spin would help to flick the tee backwards. Just a thought.
raymo

Barrykgerdes · #19 16-05-2014, 11:46 AM

The answer given is the most likely but the real result depends on how well the club head strikes the ball. The distortion of the ball is correct if the sweet spot of the club strikes the ball the most likely result is that the tee will stay in place but pushed in deeper but if you are a "hacker" like most Sunday golfers this seldom happens so the tee can marvelously disprove of the laws of physics.

Try this: Place a stubby firmly on the ground. Place the ball carefully on the cap and hit the ball full with a wood. The ball will distort pressing the centre of the cap down, opening the sides and the cap will fly off. Pick up the stubby and consume the product.

Barry

Pinwheel (Doug) · #20 16-05-2014, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

Try this: Place a stubby firmly on the ground. Place the ball carefully on the cap and hit the ball full with a wood. The ball will distort pressing the centre of the cap down, opening the sides and the cap will fly off. Pick up the stubby and consume the product.

Barry

More likely you'd get a mouth full of brown glass!